Todd Allcock

At 22 Jan 2012 09:12:59 -0800 nospam wrote:
> In article <michelle-8CD58F.23414421012012@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
> > > Honestly, it's 2012. There's no good reason to still be using POP
in
> > > this day and age.
> >
> > Sure there is; my provider for michelle.org doesn't offer IMAP except
for
> > its most expensive tier.
>
> seriously?? what possible justification could they have for that?

Value add? Surely Mac users must be used to that!

Dillon Pyron

Thus spake nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> :

>In article <michelle-8CD58F.23414421012012@news.eternal-september.org>,
>Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> > Honestly, it's 2012. There's no good reason to still be using POP in
>> > this day and age.
>>
>> Sure there is; my provider for michelle.org doesn't offer IMAP except for
>> its most expensive tier.
>
>seriously?? what possible justification could they have for that?

Margin? Mine also charges a <>pot for Exchange.
--

- dillon I am not invalid

So Kim Jung Ill shows up at the barbecue. "Wait,"
says Qadaffi, "you don't have any peircings." "If you
starve your people enough they'll be too weak to rebbel."
"You have the same number of holes in your head as when
you were born," says bin Laden. "My compound had radar
and antiacraft misslles." "Your neck," shouted Hussein,
"it's the same length." "I didn't piss on W's father."
"Then what happened?" the three asked. "Damned counterfiet
Lipitor and insulin!"

Dillon Pyron

Thus spake Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> :

>On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 19:01:42 -0700, Michelle Steiner
><michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>>> I'd love, love, love to have my iPhone use my Mac's junk mail rules.
>>> As it is, I don't use remote mail unless I'm on vacation. Too much
>>> junk.
>>
>>I have a separate email account that I've given only to relatives and
>>regular correspondents; I've yet to receive even one piece of junk mail at
>>that account. It's the account I have on my iPhone and iPad.
>
>Yeah, I have an account like that too. But it only has a small
>minority of my e-mail.

Errh, who would be sending you email worth reading except for you
close friends and family. And even then very little. Mostly it's
SMS.

If you are using it for work email, stay home, you're not on a
vacation.
--

- dillon I am not invalid

So Kim Jung Ill shows up at the barbecue. "Wait,"
says Qadaffi, "you don't have any peircings." "If you
starve your people enough they'll be too weak to rebbel."
"You have the same number of holes in your head as when
you were born," says bin Laden. "My compound had radar
and antiacraft misslles." "Your neck," shouted Hussein,
"it's the same length." "I didn't piss on W's father."
"Then what happened?" the three asked. "Damned counterfiet
Lipitor and insulin!"

Howard Brazee

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:02:12 -0600, Dillon Pyron
<invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote:

>Errh, who would be sending you email worth reading except for you
>close friends and family. And even then very little. Mostly it's
>SMS.
>
>If you are using it for work email, stay home, you're not on a
>vacation.

I subscribe to a couple of listserves that I enjoy. I can't reply
to them without going through my regular e-mail account.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

Michelle Steiner

In article <5h4rh7hjd6manc2cevma575d6dhoh74g6d@4ax.com>,
Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote:

> >>I have a separate email account that I've given only to relatives and
> >>regular correspondents; I've yet to receive even one piece of junk mail at
> >>that account. It's the account I have on my iPhone and iPad.
> >
> >Yeah, I have an account like that too. But it only has a small
> >minority of my e-mail.
>
> Errh, who would be sending you email worth reading except for you
> close friends and family. And even then very little. Mostly it's
> SMS.

Actually, we email and don't bother with SMS. I send at most three or four
SMS messages a year.

But by having that email address, I don't get spam sent to my iPad or
iPhone, and don't get listserv messages sent to them either.

--
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

Michelle Steiner

In article <jfk36v$qg5$1@dont-email.me>,
Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:

> > > Honestly, it's 2012. There's no good reason to still be using POP
> > > in this day and age.
> >
> > Sure there is; my provider for michelle.org doesn't offer IMAP except
> > for its most expensive tier.
>
>
> You might consider switching providers, then. POP is pretty lousy when
> used for access from multiple computers or devices.

I don't find it much of a hindrance or bother. In fact, with my me.com
account, I find IMAP to be a pain. When I delete a message in that account
on my iPad or iPhone, mail.app on the Mac starts fragmenting my folder list
by dividing it into "on my mac", "deleted from me.com", and other
categories, using up more vertical space in that column.

--
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

BreadWithSpam@fractious.net

Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> writes:
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 21:58:19 -0700, Todd Allcock
> <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>
>>There are two pretty easy solutions, depending on what your email
>>provider supports.
>>
>>1) Server-side rules. You set up your spam filters at the provider itself,
>>so the spam is filtered before the email is delivered.
>
> They help a bit. But the one I tried didn't have an easy way to
> select an e-mail and add it to the server side spam algorithm.

Fastmail handles this as follows - you can designate one (or more)
of your folders as a SPAM folder. Then, any mail that you move
into that folder and leave there gets added to the server-side
spam algorithm. Similarly, you can designate one (or more) folders
as explicitly not-spam, and anything you put inthere and leave
there get added to their system as explicitly not-spam. You have
to leave messages in a folder for, I think, 24 hrs for their
sweep to recognize it that way. And any folder you neither
designate as spam or not-spam is just ignored for this.

>>2) Use IMAP. With IMAP, you can set your Mac mail client to filter the
>>mail, which would remove them from the server so the iOS device would not
>>fetch the spam.
>
> That would work when I leave my computer on. But do I want to leave
> my computer on when I'm on vacation (when I need my IOS device's
> e-mail the most)?

That's why server-side filtering is vastly superior.


--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.

BreadWithSpam@fractious.net

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> writes:

> In article <220120120912593867%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> > > Honestly, it's 2012. There's no good reason to still be using POP
>> > > in this day and age.
>> >
>> > Sure there is; my provider for michelle.org doesn't offer IMAP except
>> > for its most expensive tier.
>>
>> seriously?? what possible justification could they have for that?
>
> GoDaddy is greedy.

If you own the domain, you can either forward or (better) directly
host the mail elsewhere regardless of what else you have at GoDaddy.
(ie. if want to leave web hosting there for some reason).

I've moved most of my domains off of GoDaddy a while ago anyway.
Aside from some other issues, their interface is just too painful
for my delicate sensibilities...

I do highly recommend Fastmail. They were bought out by Opera
a little while back, but they seem to be operating exactly as
before, which is to say, excellently. I have my e-mail there,
and their "enhanced" account adds free webhosting for up to
50 domains, too. The multi-year discount makes it pretty much
dirt-cheap.

There are other mail service providers that folks I know and
respect have been using and recommending as well. I just happen
to use and like that one. (I have no affiliation with them
other than as a satisfied user).

There really are hardly any good reasons to stick with POP.
(There may be a reason for doing so for file retention reasons
or perhaps for bandwith and/or only periodic connection reasons,
but even those are well managed with a good IMAP system).


--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.

Todd Allcock

At 23 Jan 2012 11:00:00 -0600 Dillon Pyron wrote:
> Thus spake nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> :
>
> >In article <michelle-8CD58F.23414421012012@news.eternal-september.org>,
> >Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> >
> >> > Honestly, it's 2012. There's no good reason to still be using POP
in
> >> > this day and age.
> >>
> >> Sure there is; my provider for michelle.org doesn't offer IMAP
except for
> >> its most expensive tier.
> >
> >seriously?? what possible justification could they have for that?
>
> Margin? Mine also charges a <>pot for Exchange.


Exchange is licensed by MS @ a couple of bucks per email address*, IMAP,
developed by Mark Crispin (a very helpful fellow who hangs around the
alt.cellular NGs periodically) back in the mid-1980s, isn't licensed.
The provider has a little more overhead with IMAP since IMAP servers
typically store more historical email than POP, but that can be handled
by selling users more storage, rather than charging punitive rates for
IMAP itself. POP is outdated, long superseded by superior technologies,
and trying to adapt it for multi-device access is just far too kludgey.
Stick a fork in it already, and bury it alongside floppy disks, acoustic
couplers, and RS-232 ports. Many free email providers like Gmail and
even AOL support IMAP. For commercial email providers to charge extra for
it is ludicrous.


(*IIRC, the Exchange license only applies for MAPI support, which is
required to sync with Outlook. Exchange Activesync, the protocol that
syncs with mobile devices, and is based on SyncML, requires no licensing
fees for the email provider, but instead is licensed by device
manufacturers, like Apple, HTC, Samsung, et al.)

Todd Allcock

At 23 Jan 2012 10:36:55 -0700 Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <jfk36v$qg5$1@dont-email.me>,
> Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Honestly, it's 2012. There's no good reason to still be using
POP
> > > > in this day and age.
> > >
> > > Sure there is; my provider for michelle.org doesn't offer IMAP
except
> > > for its most expensive tier.
> >
> >
> > You might consider switching providers, then. POP is pretty lousy
when
> > used for access from multiple computers or devices.
>
> I don't find it much of a hindrance or bother. In fact, with my me.com
> account, I find IMAP to be a pain. When I delete a message in that
account
> on my iPad or iPhone, mail.app on the Mac starts fragmenting my folder
list
> by dividing it into "on my mac", "deleted from me.com", and other
> categories, using up more vertical space in that column.


That's because me.com is apparently playing fast and loose with the IMAP
standard. In strict IMAP, delete means delete. The items, regardless of
what device deletes them, should be moved to a single trash folder, and
permanently deleted based on whatever delete rules are followed by the
IMAP server or the device doing the deleting. (Delete immediately, delete
after next sync, delete after x# hours/days, etc.)

Gmail also plays loose with IMAP and ignores delete requests from
devices, IIRC. Even if you set your mail client or device to permanently
delete mail, Gmail leaves it in a deleted items folder