Michelle Steiner

In article <Xns9DEA953128A0BVeebleFetzer@216.250.188.141>,
Bert Hyman <bert@iphouse.com> wrote:

> Asking about printer support has made me an Apple opponent, an idiot,
> and someone who doesn't understand English.

First of all, I didn't call you an idiot. I said that your remarks were
idiotic. And they're idiotic because of their content, not because they
were supposedly asking about printer support.

Your fallacious derogatory comments about Apple users marks you as an Apple
opponent.

And your repeated mischaracterizations demonstrates that you are not
honest.

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Michelle Steiner

In article <Qd6dndOShrxAKR7RnZ2dnUVZ7rKdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk >,
Borg <saerimner@gmail.com> wrote:

> The camera is so low quality I wouldn't want to print any of the
> pictures.

OK, so you don't know anything about photographic quality.

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Mike Jacoubowsky

"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote in message
news:4c834d71$0$5642$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Michelle Steiner wrote:
>
>> Yup, and we've been discussing all that for the past four days, ever
>> since
>> Steve Jobs announced it all.
>
> To me, what stood out of the 4.1 announcement was the improvement in
> the
> camera application that will emulate what older smartphone shave done
> for a while: ability to take good pictures in "beach/snow" (high
> contrast) scenes. (I think Jobs called it high dynamic range).
>
> This is a genuine improvement to the picture taking capability that
> fills a weakness that iphone had against other camera phones.

The overly-saturated too-high-contrast photos taken by the iPhone aren't
fault of faulty hardware of software. Someone deliberately "tuned" it
that way to create "punchy" photos. If Jobs said otherwise, he was being
a bit less than truthful.

For quick & dirty snapshots viewed on other phones, the iPhone camera
does a great job. But if you want to actually do something with the
picture, that's where the current contrast settings get in the way.
Small details simply disappear. Stil, it's a huge improvement over the
camera in the earlier iPhones.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

JF Mezei

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> The overly-saturated too-high-contrast photos taken by the iPhone aren't
> fault of faulty hardware of software. Someone deliberately "tuned" it
> that way to create "punchy" photos. If Jobs said otherwise, he was being
> a bit less than truthful.

I've wondered about that. My old Sony Ericsson phone took better
pictures, albeit only 3 megapixels. (and had a real flash, although the
LED light can be used when taking movies on the iphone).

I also wonder why the "HDR" feature coming in 4.1 requires 3 pictures
taken and "merged" when other cameras can take such pictures with 1
shot. Perhaps the HDR will yield better results IF YOU DON'T MOVE.

But if there si movement in the image, this feature will be useless.

Michelle Steiner

In article <4c840b84$0$5980$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> I also wonder why the "HDR" feature coming in 4.1 requires 3 pictures
> taken and "merged" when other cameras can take such pictures with 1
> shot.

It's doing in the camera what is a typical technique in the darkroom.
Using Polycontrast paper (or another brand's equivalent), expose the
negative three times: normal contrast, high contrast, and low contrast.
But even before that, photographers were making multiple exposures, in
essence doing the same thing that the iPhone's HDR does.

Thing is that on a digital camera, you have to take multiple shots in order
to do it, and then merge them.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDR_photography>

Cameras that do it in one shot are actually using tone mapping, which only
approximates HDR.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_mapping>

> Perhaps the HDR will yield better results IF YOU DON'T MOVE.
>
> But if there si movement in the image, this feature will be useless.

It all depends on how fast the intervals between exposures are. And you
can turn off the feature. Also, both the HDR photo and the normal photo
are stored in the camera (and you can delete either or both as you wish).

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DevilsPGD

In message <Xns9DEA620F9BFE7VeebleFetzer@216.250.188.140> Bert Hyman
<bert@iphouse.com> was claimed to have wrote:

>In news:michelle-C75B9E.07282605092010@news.eternal-september.org
>Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> In article <Xns9DEA5DC2A690VeebleFetzer@216.250.188.140>,
>> Bert Hyman <bert@iphouse.com> wrote:
>>
>>> > 4.2 will print over WiFi; don't know whether it will print over
>>> > bluetooth too.
>>>
>>> Print to what? What sort of print server will it talk to?
>>
>> Directly to a WiFi enabled printer, I presume.
>
>That would require the client to know how to format its output for that
>specific printer type.

Yes, but PCL5/6 and PS support will probably cover a majority of
networkable printers on the market.

nospam

In article <pKKdnW95EaUzSB7RnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@earthlink.com> , Mike
Jacoubowsky <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:

> The overly-saturated too-high-contrast photos taken by the iPhone aren't
> fault of faulty hardware of software. Someone deliberately "tuned" it
> that way to create "punchy" photos. If Jobs said otherwise, he was being
> a bit less than truthful.

nope. it's the result of limited dynamic range due to the very small
pixels. it's basic physics, not jobs twisting of things.

> For quick & dirty snapshots viewed on other phones, the iPhone camera
> does a great job. But if you want to actually do something with the
> picture, that's where the current contrast settings get in the way.
> Small details simply disappear. Stil, it's a huge improvement over the
> camera in the earlier iPhones.

that's what happens when dynamic range is limited.

nospam

In article <4c840b84$0$5980$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> I've wondered about that. My old Sony Ericsson phone took better
> pictures, albeit only 3 megapixels.

let's see side by side samples.

> (and had a real flash, although the
> LED light can be used when taking movies on the iphone).

real flash as in xenon tube?

> I also wonder why the "HDR" feature coming in 4.1 requires 3 pictures
> taken and "merged" when other cameras can take such pictures with 1
> shot.

other cameras have a wider dynamic range.

> Perhaps the HDR will yield better results IF YOU DON'T MOVE.

that's a limitation of taking multiple exposures, but from what i
understand, the triplet is in rapid succession so there should be very
little motion blur. plus, it's subject motion not user motion that's
the limiting factor.

> But if there si movement in the image, this feature will be useless.

depends on how much things move. you can switch it off you know.

nospam

In article <michelle-AF52B6.15044505092010@news.eternal-september.org>,
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> It's doing in the camera what is a typical technique in the darkroom.

actually, it isn't. it's taking three shots (i.e., three negatives) and
combining the shadows from one, midtones from another and the
highlights from the third.

> Using Polycontrast paper (or another brand's equivalent), expose the
> negative three times: normal contrast, high contrast, and low contrast.
> But even before that, photographers were making multiple exposures, in
> essence doing the same thing that the iPhone's HDR does.

i've never heard of that nor do i think it will result in what you
think it will. multigrade paper was basically two contrasts in one
emulsion and controlled by the filtration of the light (and restricted
to b/w too).

Michelle Steiner

In article <050920101526511775%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> > Using Polycontrast paper (or another brand's equivalent), expose the
> > negative three times: normal contrast, high contrast, and low
> > contrast. But even before that, photographers were making multiple
> > exposures, in essence doing the same thing that the iPhone's HDR does.
>
> i've never heard of that nor do i think it will result in what you think
> it will.

The fact that you never herd of it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And
it results in what I said it does; I know that from experience.

> multigrade paper was basically two contrasts in one emulsion and
> controlled by the filtration of the light (and restricted to b/w too).

So it's not an exact analogy, one being color and the other B&W. But it is
accurate so far as it goes.

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