JF Mezei

With the new iphone 4S, Verizon and Sprint will get iPhones able to
operate on GSM networks. But obviously, they won't be using this feature
themselves (not until there is an LTE phone).

Obviously, Veizon/Sprint won't want some of their customers getting
subsidized handsets to also subscribe to AT&T or T-Mobile, so locking
the phone might be a first reaction.

But if they want to market it as a "world phone", then locking the phone
to prevent any SIM other than Verizon's/Sprint's would sort of defeat
the purpose since people couldn't go out and get prepaid service locally
when they travel.


And interestingly, if Apple sells non-contract phones in the USA (aka:
unlocked), will a customer be able to subscribe to both AT&T and Verizon
and if so, how will the phone behave ?

Or will subscription to a CDMA network result in Verizon/Sprint
disabling the GSM stack ?

Todd Allcock

At 07 Oct 2011 20:01:38 -0400 JF Mezei wrote:
> With the new iphone 4S, Verizon and Sprint will get iPhones able to
> operate on GSM networks. But obviously, they won't be using this feature
> themselves (not until there is an LTE phone).
>
> Obviously, Veizon/Sprint won't want some of their customers getting
> subsidized handsets to also subscribe to AT&T or T-Mobile, so locking
> the phone might be a first reaction.

AFAIK, all Verizon and Sprint world phones(combo CDMA/GSM) are SIM-locked.

> But if they want to market it as a "world phone", then locking the phone
> to prevent any SIM other than Verizon's/Sprint's would sort of defeat
> the purpose since people couldn't go out and get prepaid service locally
> when they travel.


??? They don't offer world phones so their customers can buy local
prepaid SIMs and save money, they offer world phones so their customers
can pay them exorbitant roaming fees.

(Just like AT&T and T-Mobile, GSM carriers who lock their GSM world
phones.)

Michelle Steiner

In article <4e8f92e2$0$12064$c3e8da3$f017e9df@news.astraweb.c om>,
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> But if they want to market it as a "world phone", then locking the phone
> to prevent any SIM other than Verizon's/Sprint's would sort of defeat
> the purpose since people couldn't go out and get prepaid service locally
> when they travel.

CDMA phones don't use SIMs.

> And interestingly, if Apple sells non-contract phones in the USA (aka:
> unlocked), will a customer be able to subscribe to both AT&T and Verizon
> and if so, how will the phone behave ?

The unlocked iPhone 4S sold in the USA will work only with AT&T in the USA.
I don't know about other countries in this regard.

--
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

nospam

In article <michelle-6E415C.18280807102011@news.eternal-september.org>,
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> > But if they want to market it as a "world phone", then locking the phone
> > to prevent any SIM other than Verizon's/Sprint's would sort of defeat
> > the purpose since people couldn't go out and get prepaid service locally
> > when they travel.
>
> CDMA phones don't use SIMs.

world phones do, for the gsm side.

> > And interestingly, if Apple sells non-contract phones in the USA (aka:
> > unlocked), will a customer be able to subscribe to both AT&T and Verizon
> > and if so, how will the phone behave ?
>
> The unlocked iPhone 4S sold in the USA will work only with AT&T in the USA.
> I don't know about other countries in this regard.

it will work with t-mobile on 2g, which is fine for voice and light
data use (email, imessage, etc).

sprint/verizon would need to activate it for it to be used on either
network, and they might not do that.

Michelle Steiner

In article <071020111837289409%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> > > But if they want to market it as a "world phone", then locking the
> > > phone to prevent any SIM other than Verizon's/Sprint's would sort of
> > > defeat the purpose since people couldn't go out and get prepaid
> > > service locally when they travel.
> >
> > CDMA phones don't use SIMs.
>
> world phones do, for the gsm side.

The CDMA side (e.g., Verizon and Sprint) don't use them, and that's what we
were talking about.

> > The unlocked iPhone 4S sold in the USA will work only with AT&T in the
> > USA.
> >
> > I don't know about other countries in this regard.
>
> it will work with t-mobile on 2g, which is fine for voice and light data
> use (email, imessage, etc).

You would have to jailbreak and unlock it first.

> sprint/verizon would need to activate it for it to be used on either
> network, and they might not do that.

<http://store.apple.com/us/browse/hom...ne/iphone4s?mc
o=MjU5MTk4NzE>

"The unlocked iPhone 4 or iPhone 4S will not work with CDMA-based carriers
such as Verizon Wireless or Sprint."

--
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

nospam

In article <michelle-2149A5.19051507102011@news.eternal-september.org>,
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> > > > But if they want to market it as a "world phone", then locking the
> > > > phone to prevent any SIM other than Verizon's/Sprint's would sort of
> > > > defeat the purpose since people couldn't go out and get prepaid
> > > > service locally when they travel.
> > >
> > > CDMA phones don't use SIMs.
> >
> > world phones do, for the gsm side.
>
> The CDMA side (e.g., Verizon and Sprint) don't use them, and that's what we
> were talking about.

a world phone that won't let you use a sim when traveling is pointless.

> > > The unlocked iPhone 4S sold in the USA will work only with AT&T in the
> > > USA.
> > >
> > > I don't know about other countries in this regard.
> >
> > it will work with t-mobile on 2g, which is fine for voice and light data
> > use (email, imessage, etc).
>
> You would have to jailbreak and unlock it first.

not if it's unlocked already.

> > sprint/verizon would need to activate it for it to be used on either
> > network, and they might not do that.
>
> <http://store.apple.com/us/browse/hom...ne/iphone4s?mc
> o=MjU5MTk4NzE>
>
> "The unlocked iPhone 4 or iPhone 4S will not work with CDMA-based carriers
> such as Verizon Wireless or Sprint."

only as a matter of policy.

they could activate it if they wanted to and they might decide to at
some point. it's stupid to turn away a customer willing to pay money,
especially one who isn't being subsidized.

it also says nothing about other cdma carriers, some of whom might
activate it.

Michelle Steiner

In article <071020111932498643%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> > > > > But if they want to market it as a "world phone", then locking
> > > > > the phone to prevent any SIM other than Verizon's/Sprint's would
> > > > > sort of defeat the purpose since people couldn't go out and get
> > > > > prepaid service locally when they travel.
> > > >
> > > > CDMA phones don't use SIMs.
> > >
> > > world phones do, for the gsm side.
> >
> > The CDMA side (e.g., Verizon and Sprint) don't use them, and that's
> > what we were talking about.
>
> a world phone that won't let you use a sim when traveling is pointless.

You are addressing something that was not said. The point is that CDMA
does not use SIMs, so therefore there are no Verizon or Sprint SIMs for the
iPhone 4S. I never said that the phone doesn't use a SIM.

> > <http://store.apple.com/us/browse/hom...ne/iphone4s?mc
> > o=MjU5MTk4NzE>
> >
> > "The unlocked iPhone 4 or iPhone 4S will not work with CDMA-based carriers
> > such as Verizon Wireless or Sprint."
>
> only as a matter of policy.

How do you know that it's policy and not technical?

> it also says nothing about other cdma carriers, some of whom might
> activate it.

Do you understand what "such as" means?

--
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

nospam

In article <michelle-200A48.20441407102011@news.eternal-september.org>,
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> > > "The unlocked iPhone 4 or iPhone 4S will not work with CDMA-based
> > > carriers such as Verizon Wireless or Sprint."
> >
> > only as a matter of policy.
>
> How do you know that it's policy and not technical?

because that's how cdma carriers work. if it's not in their database,
they will usually not activate it, even if you have the msl code to
program it.

unlike previous cdma phones, the iphone 4s doesn't have a carrier
specific version. it's the exact same hardware/firmware regardless of
carrier and programming it is done via itunes, not msl codes. maybe the
esn/meid is added to the carrier's database upon activation.

it looks like sprint & verizon will treat the unlocked iphone as a
foreign device and won't activate it, which is stupid. maybe some of
the other cdma carriers will.

JF Mezei

Michelle Steiner wrote:

> "The unlocked iPhone 4 or iPhone 4S will not work with CDMA-based carriers
> such as Verizon Wireless or Sprint."


Would the wording be more accurate if it said:

"Verizon and Sprint will not activate unlocked phones or phones
purchased from AT&T ?"


Or is CDMA disabled by default and enabled only when Verizon/Sprint
configure the phones to work on CDMA ?

I am puzzled because Bell Canada and Telus still operate their old CDMA
network, but their iphones have been GSM. Will be interesting if 4S
users can see "both" networks, or whether thir 4S , having a GSM sim
card in them, will have CDMA functions disabled and they won't see
Bell's CDMA network.

Bert

In news:4e8f92e2$0$12064$c3e8da3$f017e9df@news.astraw eb.com JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> Obviously, Veizon/Sprint won't want some of their customers getting
> subsidized handsets to also subscribe to AT&T or T-Mobile, so locking
> the phone might be a first reaction.

Not so obvious to me.

If they have to sign a contract in order to get the subsidised phone and
either maintain their account or pay the penalty, why should anybody
care what they do with the other half of the phone?

--
bert@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN