Peter

I was abroad last 2 days (France) and didn't want to buy an EU data
bundle (the only way to get *any* data connectivity when EU roaming,
in general) for the SIM card in the Ipad2, because I had just bought a
£10 one (50MB, 30 days) for the SIM card in my Nokia E51 phone...

Every laptop and PDA connects to the phone's DUN profile OK.

The Ipad2 sees the phone and connects to it, and you get the usual
mutual-PIN entry dialog, but the connection then breaks after a few
seconds, and no internet connectivity is ever delivered.

I know the Ipad doesn't work with a standard serial NMEA GPS profile,
which is another piece of stupidity.

Currently, the only way I can get the Ipad2 to roam on GPRS/3G without
buying a dedicated EU data pack for it is by using an E585.

An interesting aside is that because Apple have blocked any outgoing
SMS functionality, and have blocked incoming SMS functionality except
for network messages like these
http://www.zen74158.zen.co.uk/ipad-sms/
the only way to buy an EU data bundle is by being on a network which
provides a means of buying these with a web page, which is accessible
*prior* to the purchase. T-Mobile do that, but IIRC most of the others
don't. One has to move the SIM card into a phone and use SMS messages
to do it.... such idiocy.

David Empson

Peter <nospam@nospam9876.com> wrote:

> I was abroad last 2 days (France) and didn't want to buy an EU data
> bundle (the only way to get *any* data connectivity when EU roaming,
> in general) for the SIM card in the Ipad2, because I had just bought a
> £10 one (50MB, 30 days) for the SIM card in my Nokia E51 phone...
>
> Every laptop and PDA connects to the phone's DUN profile OK.
>
> The Ipad2 sees the phone and connects to it, and you get the usual
> mutual-PIN entry dialog, but the connection then breaks after a few
> seconds, and no internet connectivity is ever delivered.

To answer your question in the subject line: probably not.

The iPad does work with an iPhone's "Personal Hotspot" feature via
Bluetooth. Judging from a little digging with technical tools, this is
using the "Personal Area Networking" (PAN) profile, not "Dial Up
Networking" (DUN).

A DUN client would require a PPP implementation in iOS. iOS has no other
use for PPP, and PAN is probably going to be more widely available in
future, and PAN the method implemented by iPhones (which are likely to
be more common amongst iPad users). I doubt that future versions of iOS
would add support for DUN as a client.

There might be an argument in favour of implementing a DUN client for
iPod Touch users, since they are more likely to have a competing
cellphone which implements DUN. I can't see Apple being keen to add a
feature in iOS which only helps iPhone competitors.

Same argument applies to the question of whether the iPhone should
implement DUN as a service. It doesn't have any reason to do so, since
all iOS devices running iOS 4 and Macs running recent enough versions of
Mac OS X can use PAN, and I expect Windows can as well.

This is probably an example of Apple choosing to implement a simpler and
more efficient protocol, in preference to an older, complex and less
efficient protocol.

--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

Peter

dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote

>Peter <nospam@nospam9876.com> wrote:
>
>> I was abroad last 2 days (France) and didn't want to buy an EU data
>> bundle (the only way to get *any* data connectivity when EU roaming,
>> in general) for the SIM card in the Ipad2, because I had just bought a
>> £10 one (50MB, 30 days) for the SIM card in my Nokia E51 phone...
>>
>> Every laptop and PDA connects to the phone's DUN profile OK.
>>
>> The Ipad2 sees the phone and connects to it, and you get the usual
>> mutual-PIN entry dialog, but the connection then breaks after a few
>> seconds, and no internet connectivity is ever delivered.
>
>To answer your question in the subject line: probably not.
>
>The iPad does work with an iPhone's "Personal Hotspot" feature via
>Bluetooth. Judging from a little digging with technical tools, this is
>using the "Personal Area Networking" (PAN) profile, not "Dial Up
>Networking" (DUN).
>
>A DUN client would require a PPP implementation in iOS. iOS has no other
>use for PPP, and PAN is probably going to be more widely available in
>future, and PAN the method implemented by iPhones (which are likely to
>be more common amongst iPad users). I doubt that future versions of iOS
>would add support for DUN as a client.
>
>There might be an argument in favour of implementing a DUN client for
>iPod Touch users, since they are more likely to have a competing
>cellphone which implements DUN. I can't see Apple being keen to add a
>feature in iOS which only helps iPhone competitors.
>
>Same argument applies to the question of whether the iPhone should
>implement DUN as a service. It doesn't have any reason to do so, since
>all iOS devices running iOS 4 and Macs running recent enough versions of
>Mac OS X can use PAN, and I expect Windows can as well.
>
>This is probably an example of Apple choosing to implement a simpler and
>more efficient protocol, in preference to an older, complex and less
>efficient protocol.

Many thanks.

However, the Ipad reports the phone as "connected". The pin number
exchange is done on both devices, and then the phone asks whether to
accept the connection from the Ipad, which I confirm.

So it doesn't look like the type of connection is the wrong one.

The Ipad disconnects after approx 20 seconds, always.

Todd Allcock

At 30 Aug 2011 07:39:51 +0100 Peter wrote:
>
> dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote
>
> >Peter <nospam@nospam9876.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I was abroad last 2 days (France) and didn't want to buy an EU data
> >> bundle (the only way to get *any* data connectivity when EU roaming,
> >> in general) for the SIM card in the Ipad2, because I had just bought
a
> >> £10 one (50MB, 30 days) for the SIM card in my Nokia E51 phone....
> >>
> >> Every laptop and PDA connects to the phone's DUN profile OK.
> >>
> >> The Ipad2 sees the phone and connects to it, and you get the usual
> >> mutual-PIN entry dialog, but the connection then breaks after a few
> >> seconds, and no internet connectivity is ever delivered.
> >
> >To answer your question in the subject line: probably not.
> >
> >The iPad does work with an iPhone's "Personal Hotspot" feature via
> >Bluetooth. Judging from a little digging with technical tools, thisis
> >using the "Personal Area Networking" (PAN) profile, not "Dial Up
> >Networking" (DUN).
> >
> >A DUN client would require a PPP implementation in iOS. iOS has no
other
> >use for PPP, and PAN is probably going to be more widely available in
> >future, and PAN the method implemented by iPhones (which are likelyto
> >be more common amongst iPad users). I doubt that future versions ofiOS
> >would add support for DUN as a client.
> >
> >There might be an argument in favour of implementing a DUN client for
> >iPod Touch users, since they are more likely to have a competing
> >cellphone which implements DUN. I can't see Apple being keen to adda
> >feature in iOS which only helps iPhone competitors.
> >
> >Same argument applies to the question of whether the iPhone should
> >implement DUN as a service. It doesn't have any reason to do so, since
> >all iOS devices running iOS 4 and Macs running recent enough versions
of
> >Mac OS X can use PAN, and I expect Windows can as well.
> >
> >This is probably an example of Apple choosing to implement a simpler
and
> >more efficient protocol, in preference to an older, complex and less
> >efficient protocol.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> However, the Ipad reports the phone as "connected". The pin number
> exchange is done on both devices, and then the phone asks whether to
> accept the connection from the Ipad, which I confirm.


That's just the pairing. Once paired, the devices essentially tell each
other what services they expect/have to offer from the other, and if
there isn't anything useful, they part company. This is what you're
seeing.

For a very silly analogy, say I want to borrow some sugar from a
neighbor. I knock on my neighbor's door. He answers, we exchange
pleasantries (pairing), then I ask to borrow a cup of sugar (discover
services). He tells me he's a diabetic and doesn't have any sugar, soI
thank him and leave (disconnect) heading for the next neighbor. Replace
the neighbor with your phone, the sugar with PAN (since the iPad doesn't
do DUN, it's asking for PAN), and that's what you're seeing.


> So it doesn't look like the type of connection is the wrong one.
>
> The Ipad disconnects after approx 20 seconds, always.

Until the iPad and phone connect, neither knows the service you want them
to use together is unavailable.

BT DUN has really fallen out of favor in the last few years, replaced by
PAN. If you really want to connect the iPad to a cellphone, look for a
cheap used smartphone that supports a WiFi router mode (e.g. a Nokia
Symbian running Joikuspot) that you can stick your SIM into.

Peter

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote

>BT DUN has really fallen out of favor in the last few years, replaced by
>PAN. If you really want to connect the iPad to a cellphone, look for a
>cheap used smartphone that supports a WiFi router mode (e.g. a Nokia
>Symbian running Joikuspot) that you can stick your SIM into.

The E585 does this and it works fine.

I can well guess Apple were not going to support pairing with Nokia
phones...

David Empson

Peter <nospam@nospam9876.com> wrote:

> Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote
>
> >BT DUN has really fallen out of favor in the last few years, replaced by
> >PAN. If you really want to connect the iPad to a cellphone, look for a
> >cheap used smartphone that supports a WiFi router mode (e.g. a Nokia
> >Symbian running Joikuspot) that you can stick your SIM into.
>
> The E585 does this and it works fine.
>
> I can well guess Apple were not going to support pairing with Nokia
> phones...

Apple does support pairing with Nokia phones, as you demonstrated
earlier. The phone you have just isn't offering any services the iPad
can use, so the iPad doesn't bother to retain the connection.

If your Nokia phone did PAN, the iPad would be perfectly happy to use
it.

--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz