BLuRry

It's pretty easy to generate z-code without having to try very hard --
so I thought it could be neat to take some z-code produced by Inform7
and then boot up the adventure on a //. Anyone think this might be
feasible?

Inform7 can output Z-Code versions 5, 6 and 8 (well, also Glulx but
there's no interpreter for that in 8-bit land)

Were there any Z-Code version 5 games for the // series? Wishbringer?

Zork Zero was version 6, but would the UI of that game co-operate with
alternate z-code? (it was a NICE interface if my childhood memory
serves me correctly... DHGR too.) I guess I could always ask Steve
Meretzky, anyone have his number? ;-D (Still waiting for him to
release Bac Attack...) I think it was somewhat prodos-based too, but
I don't know how much beyond the loader/low-level is prodos. If it
was filesystem-based then maybe it would be easy?

-B

Steve Nickolas

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011, BLuRry wrote:

> It's pretty easy to generate z-code without having to try very hard --
> so I thought it could be neat to take some z-code produced by Inform7
> and then boot up the adventure on a //. Anyone think this might be
> feasible?
>
> Inform7 can output Z-Code versions 5, 6 and 8 (well, also Glulx but
> there's no interpreter for that in 8-bit land)
>
> Were there any Z-Code version 5 games for the // series? Wishbringer?

Beyond Zork.

Disk 2 is encoded in a way I don't understand, so I've only been able to
use small Z5 games. Also the interp is rather buggy.

-uso.

bloomer_au

On Oct 27, 5:21*pm, Steve Nickolas
<lyricalnan...@usotsuki.hoshinet.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Oct 2011, BLuRry wrote:
> > It's pretty easy to generate z-code without having to try very hard --
> > so I thought it could be neat to take some z-code produced by Inform7
> > and then boot up the adventure on a //. *Anyone think this might be
> > feasible?

Depends on whether you mean an 8-bit Apple II or a IIGS. The latter is
more likely to work. That doesn't mean the former is impossible, but
it depends on the game versions, stability of the interpreters, etc.

Here's a link to some info about running various versions of z-code on
a IIGS and how they were ported:

http://apple2.org.za/gswv/a2zine/Sel...TypeGames3.htm

> > Inform7 can output Z-Code versions 5, 6 and 8 *(well, also Glulx but
> > there's no interpreter for that in 8-bit land)

.... and is unlikely to ever be, given that Glulx sometimes
demonstrates slowdown running modern games on modern computers.
Slowdown in text-only games! Amazing but true.

- Wade

BLuRry

On Oct 27, 2:21*am, Steve Nickolas
<lyricalnan...@usotsuki.hoshinet.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Oct 2011, BLuRry wrote:
> > It's pretty easy to generate z-code without having to try very hard --
> > so I thought it could be neat to take some z-code produced by Inform7
> > and then boot up the adventure on a //. *Anyone think this might be
> > feasible?
>
> > Inform7 can output Z-Code versions 5, 6 and 8 *(well, also Glulx but
> > there's no interpreter for that in 8-bit land)
>
> > Were there any Z-Code version 5 games for the // series? *Wishbringer?
>
> Beyond Zork.
>
> Disk 2 is encoded in a way I don't understand, so I've only been able to
> use small Z5 games. Also the interp is rather buggy.
>
> -uso.

What about Zork Zero? I remember seeing the prodos prompt when it
started, and I remember it shipped on 5.25 as well as 3.5 disks. To
get that kind of flexibility, I wonder if they used some sort of
prodos file system variant?

-Brendan

BLuRry

On Oct 27, 3:20*am, bloomer_au <bloo...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
> On Oct 27, 5:21*pm, Steve Nickolas
>
> <lyricalnan...@usotsuki.hoshinet.org> wrote:
> > On Wed, 26 Oct 2011, BLuRry wrote:
> > > It's pretty easy to generate z-code without having to try very hard --
> > > so I thought it could be neat to take some z-code produced by Inform7
> > > and then boot up the adventure on a //. *Anyone think this might be
> > > feasible?
>
> Depends on whether you mean an 8-bit Apple II or a IIGS. The latter is
> more likely to work. That doesn't mean the former is impossible, but
> it depends on the game versions, stability of the interpreters, etc.
>
> Here's a link to some info about running various versions of z-code on
> a IIGS and how they were ported:
>
> http://apple2.org.za/gswv/a2zine/Sel...TypeGames3.htm
>
> > > Inform7 can output Z-Code versions 5, 6 and 8 *(well, also Glulx but
> > > there's no interpreter for that in 8-bit land)
>
> ... and is unlikely to ever be, given that Glulx sometimes
> demonstrates slowdown running modern games on modern computers.
> Slowdown in text-only games! Amazing but true.
>
> - Wade

Crazy indeed -- Is it possible to reproduce the zork zero interface
easily in glulx? I really liked the compass rose and map features. I
just wonder how much of that was game logic and how much of it was z-
machine interpreter logic.

Steve Nickolas

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011, BLuRry wrote:

> On Oct 27, 2:21*am, Steve Nickolas
> <lyricalnan...@usotsuki.hoshinet.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Oct 2011, BLuRry wrote:
>>> It's pretty easy to generate z-code without having to try very hard --
>>> so I thought it could be neat to take some z-code produced by Inform7
>>> and then boot up the adventure on a //. *Anyone think this might be
>>> feasible?
>>
>>> Inform7 can output Z-Code versions 5, 6 and 8 *(well, also Glulx but
>>> there's no interpreter for that in 8-bit land)
>>
>>> Were there any Z-Code version 5 games for the // series? *Wishbringer?
>>
>> Beyond Zork.
>>
>> Disk 2 is encoded in a way I don't understand, so I've only been able to
>> use small Z5 games. Also the interp is rather buggy.
>>
>> -uso.
>
> What about Zork Zero? I remember seeing the prodos prompt when it
> started, and I remember it shipped on 5.25 as well as 3.5 disks. To
> get that kind of flexibility, I wonder if they used some sort of
> prodos file system variant?
>
> -Brendan
>

Zork Zero is a Z6 interpreter. Z6 games in Inform are quite rare.

(And yes, the filesystem is ProDOS)

-uso.

bloomer_au

On Oct 28, 2:12*am, BLuRry <brendan.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Crazy indeed -- Is it possible to reproduce the zork zero interface
> easily in glulx? *I really liked the compass rose and map features. *I
> just wonder how much of that was game logic and how much of it was z-
> machine interpreter logic.

Like Steve said, Z6's are rare because they had those little extra
things, but were still produced in a time of limited resources.

Glulx gives the ability to do all kinds of things now -- multimedia
sound, graphics, split panel windows, animation (very new), etc. But
these all require extra degrees of programming. So I wouldn't describe
it as super easy to reproduce these features, but that's how you do
them in the modern environment.

- Wade

BLuRry

On Oct 27, 8:30*pm, bloomer_au <bloo...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
> On Oct 28, 2:12*am, BLuRry <brendan.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Crazy indeed -- Is it possible to reproduce the zork zero interface
> > easily in glulx? *I really liked the compass rose and map features. *I
> > just wonder how much of that was game logic and how much of it was z-
> > machine interpreter logic.
>
> Like Steve said, Z6's are rare because they had those little extra
> things, but were still produced in a time of limited resources.
>
> Glulx gives the ability to do all kinds of things now -- multimedia
> sound, graphics, split panel windows, animation (very new), etc. But
> these all require extra degrees of programming. So I wouldn't describe
> it as super easy to reproduce these features, but that's how you do
> them in the modern environment.
>
> - Wade

Right, but for what I'm doing Z6 might be sufficient. I don't need
bells or whistles. These kids created pretty small games, and as long
as the z-code is compatible, maybe gutting Zork Zero and replacing the
game files with custom ones is the way to go. Kinda makes me wonder
how Zork Zero managed to work properly being split across disks, but
whatever. :-)