rittwage

I have an old Apple II that I've fixed every other odd problem
(besides a broken Applesoft E0 ROM) except the keyboard!

I found some AAC/N chips, but no luck- the encoding is wrong. I need
to see if any kind soul has any AAE/N encoder chips left to spare.

I really hate to convert to PS/2- I like the original keyboard.
Without that, I might as well use an emulator.

-
Pete Rittwage
C64 Preservation Project (don't hold that against me, I use preserve
classic computers)
http://c64preservation.com

Michael J. Mahon

rittwage wrote:
> I have an old Apple II that I've fixed every other odd problem
> (besides a broken Applesoft E0 ROM) except the keyboard!
>
> I found some AAC/N chips, but no luck- the encoding is wrong. I need
> to see if any kind soul has any AAE/N encoder chips left to spare.
>
> I really hate to convert to PS/2- I like the original keyboard.
> Without that, I might as well use an emulator.

Pete, I'd recommend keeping this thread in csa2 and avoiding
crossposting to marketplace and emulators.

Are you sure that the problem is the encoder chip, and not
one or more shorted keyswitches? Failed encoders are not
the most common keyboard problems.

If it is the encoder, then you will have a hard time finding
an equivalent replacement. It would be possible to construct
an equivalent that plugs into the original electrical "footprint",
but it's not a simple project.

Since the encoder presents parallel ASCII to the Apple II, it
should not be too difficult to replace the keyboard with, say,
a later Apple ][+ keyboard. Those used to be pretty plentiful,
depending on how authentically "Apple" it had to be...

-michael

NadaNet 3.1 for Apple II parallel computing!
Home page: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."

Raymond Wiker

"Michael J. Mahon" <mjmahon@aol.com> writes:

> rittwage wrote:
>> I have an old Apple II that I've fixed every other odd problem
>> (besides a broken Applesoft E0 ROM) except the keyboard!
>>
>> I found some AAC/N chips, but no luck- the encoding is wrong. I need
>> to see if any kind soul has any AAE/N encoder chips left to spare.
>>
>> I really hate to convert to PS/2- I like the original keyboard.
>> Without that, I might as well use an emulator.
>
> Pete, I'd recommend keeping this thread in csa2 and avoiding
> crossposting to marketplace and emulators.
>
> Are you sure that the problem is the encoder chip, and not
> one or more shorted keyswitches? Failed encoders are not
> the most common keyboard problems.
>
> If it is the encoder, then you will have a hard time finding
> an equivalent replacement. It would be possible to construct
> an equivalent that plugs into the original electrical "footprint",
> but it's not a simple project.
>
> Since the encoder presents parallel ASCII to the Apple II, it
> should not be too difficult to replace the keyboard with, say,
> a later Apple ][+ keyboard. Those used to be pretty plentiful,
> depending on how authentically "Apple" it had to be...

If it turns out to be the encoder, Vince Briel's "SuperEncoder" may be a
suitable replacement:

http://www.brielcomputers.com/wordpress/?cat=9

rittwage

On Dec 7, 2:49*am, "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote:
> rittwage wrote:
> > I have an old Apple II that I've fixed every other odd problem
> > (besides a broken Applesoft E0 ROM) except the keyboard!
>
> > I found some AAC/N chips, but no luck- the encoding is wrong. *I need
> > to see if any kind soul has any AAE/N encoder chips left to spare.
>
> > I really hate to convert to PS/2- I like the original keyboard.
> > Without that, I might as well use an emulator. *
>
> Pete, I'd recommend keeping this thread in csa2 and avoiding
> crossposting to marketplace and emulators.
>
> Are you sure that the problem is the encoder chip, and not
> one or more shorted keyswitches? *Failed encoders are not
> the most common keyboard problems.
>
> If it is the encoder, then you will have a hard time finding
> an equivalent replacement. *It would be possible to construct
> an equivalent that plugs into the original electrical "footprint",
> but it's not a simple project.
>
> Since the encoder presents parallel ASCII to the Apple II, it
> should not be too difficult to replace the keyboard with, say,
> a later Apple ][+ keyboard. *Those used to be pretty plentiful,
> depending on how authentically "Apple" it had to be...
>
> -michael

It's definitely the encoder- the original does nothing and the AAC
works, but has all wrong keys. No switches are shorted, and I traced
to find no "stuck" bits. It's just that the AAC, AAD, etc. send
different keystrokes to the AAE.

This is an early Datanetics keyboard without the separate encoder
board, so that modern encoder board replacement won't work. Also, I
know I can replace the keyboard entirely with a PIC and a PS/2
keyboard, but... yuck. I know I can also swap the whole keyboard for
another, but they are about as hard to find!

I do have extra IIe keyboards, but to my knowledge they can't be
converted. Or can they?

-Pete

Michael Black

On Wed, 7 Dec 2011, rittwage wrote:

> On Dec 7, 2:49*am, "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote:
>> rittwage wrote:
>>> I have an old Apple II that I've fixed every other odd problem
>>> (besides a broken Applesoft E0 ROM) except the keyboard!
>>
>>> I found some AAC/N chips, but no luck- the encoding is wrong. *I need
>>> to see if any kind soul has any AAE/N encoder chips left to spare.
>>
>>> I really hate to convert to PS/2- I like the original keyboard.
>>> Without that, I might as well use an emulator. *
>>
>> Pete, I'd recommend keeping this thread in csa2 and avoiding
>> crossposting to marketplace and emulators.
>>
>> Are you sure that the problem is the encoder chip, and not
>> one or more shorted keyswitches? *Failed encoders are not
>> the most common keyboard problems.
>>
>> If it is the encoder, then you will have a hard time finding
>> an equivalent replacement. *It would be possible to construct
>> an equivalent that plugs into the original electrical "footprint",
>> but it's not a simple project.
>>
>> Since the encoder presents parallel ASCII to the Apple II, it
>> should not be too difficult to replace the keyboard with, say,
>> a later Apple ][+ keyboard. *Those used to be pretty plentiful,
>> depending on how authentically "Apple" it had to be...
>>
>> -michael
>
> It's definitely the encoder- the original does nothing and the AAC
> works, but has all wrong keys. No switches are shorted, and I traced
> to find no "stuck" bits. It's just that the AAC, AAD, etc. send
> different keystrokes to the AAE.
>
> This is an early Datanetics keyboard without the separate encoder
> board, so that modern encoder board replacement won't work. Also, I
> know I can replace the keyboard entirely with a PIC and a PS/2
> keyboard, but... yuck. I know I can also swap the whole keyboard for
> another, but they are about as hard to find!
>
> I do have extra IIe keyboards, but to my knowledge they can't be
> converted. Or can they?
>
Map what character is generated with what key.

Then program an eprom as a translater, taking the 7bits from the encoder
and outputting the proper 7bits that actually goes with key. In other
words, the character that comes out of the character generator is used as
an address for the address pins of the eprom, and the data at that address
will be the proper ascii character.

Michael

Michael J. Mahon

rittwage <rittwage@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 7, 2:49 am, "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote:
>> rittwage wrote:
>>> I have an old Apple II that I've fixed every other odd problem
>>> (besides a broken Applesoft E0 ROM) except the keyboard!
>>
>>> I found some AAC/N chips, but no luck- the encoding is wrong. I need
>>> to see if any kind soul has any AAE/N encoder chips left to spare.
>>
>>> I really hate to convert to PS/2- I like the original keyboard.
>>> Without that, I might as well use an emulator.
>>
>> Pete, I'd recommend keeping this thread in csa2 and avoiding
>> crossposting to marketplace and emulators.
>>
>> Are you sure that the problem is the encoder chip, and not
>> one or more shorted keyswitches? Failed encoders are not
>> the most common keyboard problems.
>>
>> If it is the encoder, then you will have a hard time finding
>> an equivalent replacement. It would be possible to construct
>> an equivalent that plugs into the original electrical "footprint",
>> but it's not a simple project.
>>
>> Since the encoder presents parallel ASCII to the Apple II, it
>> should not be too difficult to replace the keyboard with, say,
>> a later Apple ][+ keyboard. Those used to be pretty plentiful,
>> depending on how authentically "Apple" it had to be...
>>
>> -michael
>
> It's definitely the encoder- the original does nothing and the AAC
> works, but has all wrong keys. No switches are shorted, and I traced
> to find no "stuck" bits. It's just that the AAC, AAD, etc. send
> different keystrokes to the AAE.
>
> This is an early Datanetics keyboard without the separate encoder
> board, so that modern encoder board replacement won't work. Also, I
> know I can replace the keyboard entirely with a PIC and a PS/2
> keyboard, but... yuck. I know I can also swap the whole keyboard for
> another, but they are about as hard to find!
>
> I do have extra IIe keyboards, but to my knowledge they can't be
> converted. Or can they?
>
> -Pete

Yes, it shouldn't be hard to adapt a //e keyboard to an Apple II. You'll
need to stay in caps lock to keep things simple.

-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

rittwage

On Dec 8, 3:07*am, Michael J. Mahon <mjma...@aol.com> wrote:
> rittwage <rittw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 7, 2:49 am, "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> rittwage wrote:
> >>> I have an old Apple II that I've fixed every other odd problem
> >>> (besides a broken Applesoft E0 ROM) except the keyboard!
>
> >>> I found some AAC/N chips, but no luck- the encoding is wrong. *I need
> >>> to see if any kind soul has any AAE/N encoder chips left to spare.
>
> >>> I really hate to convert to PS/2- I like the original keyboard.
> >>> Without that, I might as well use an emulator. *
>
> >> Pete, I'd recommend keeping this thread in csa2 and avoiding
> >> crossposting to marketplace and emulators.
>
> >> Are you sure that the problem is the encoder chip, and not
> >> one or more shorted keyswitches? *Failed encoders are not
> >> the most common keyboard problems.
>
> >> If it is the encoder, then you will have a hard time finding
> >> an equivalent replacement. *It would be possible to construct
> >> an equivalent that plugs into the original electrical "footprint",
> >> but it's not a simple project.
>
> >> Since the encoder presents parallel ASCII to the Apple II, it
> >> should not be too difficult to replace the keyboard with, say,
> >> a later Apple ][+ keyboard. *Those used to be pretty plentiful,
> >> depending on how authentically "Apple" it had to be...
>
> >> -michael
>
> > It's definitely the encoder- the original does nothing and the AAC
> > works, but has all wrong keys. *No switches are shorted, and I traced
> > to find no "stuck" bits. *It's just that the AAC, AAD, etc. send
> > different keystrokes to the AAE.
>
> > This is an early Datanetics keyboard without the separate encoder
> > board, so that modern encoder board replacement won't work. *Also, I
> > know I can replace the keyboard entirely with a PIC and a PS/2
> > keyboard, but... yuck. *I know I can also swap the whole keyboard for
> > another, but they are about as hard to find!
>
> > I do have extra IIe keyboards, but to my knowledge they can't be
> > converted. *Or can they?
>
> > -Pete
>
> Yes, it shouldn't be hard to adapt a //e keyboard to an Apple II. *You'll
> need to stay in caps lock to keep things simple.
>
> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II:http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

Maybe, but the keyboard footprint is different- you can't mount one in
a IIe case.
I guess I'll wait until I can find a chip or another II keyboard one
day...

-Pete

rittwage

I held a IIe keyboard next to my II case and it's a good bit
different. It looks like you'd have to cut up the Apple II/II+ case a
good bit to get it in there, including cutting a square hole in the
upper right for the reset key. On the II, the keyboard cutout is
graduated like the keyboard shape, but on the IIe it's squared off
like that keyboard. Quite different, unfortunately.

I guess the alternative would be to put the II motherboard in a IIe
case, but then it wouldn't be an original II anymore. I already have
working IIe's.

-Pete

dchiu

Encoder board -
http://tinyurl.com/6txtqz4

rittwage

On Dec 9, 1:59*pm, dchiu <dchiu_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Encoder board -http://tinyurl.com/6txtqz4

My keyboard is one of the original models that don't have the separate
encoder board- I can't use that.