jacobst

in the 80s I had an Apple II+. with a disk II drive. (Actually still
have it, but it is boxed up).
I wanted to get back into the Apple stuff, so I bought a IIgs on eBay
that came with a duo disk.
After setting up the IIgs, I am finding that most of my old 5.25 disks
(not all) are not readable by the duo disk unit. the ones that work
seem to work very reliably, but for the ones that don't, I am lucky if
I can get a catalog listing on them once in several tries. I am not
sure if it is the duo disk not working, or if it is just the floppies
are just too old.

How can I tell if the problem is the duo disk unit, or the floppies
being too old? What is the life expectancy of the data on the floppy
disks? Are there any options on getting these old floppies to read so
I can get the data off?

Thanks.

D Finnigan

jacobst wrote:
> in the 80s I had an Apple II+. with a disk II drive. (Actually still
> have it, but it is boxed up).
> I wanted to get back into the Apple stuff, so I bought a IIgs on eBay
> that came with a duo disk.
> After setting up the IIgs, I am finding that most of my old 5.25 disks
> (not all) are not readable by the duo disk unit. the ones that work
> seem to work very reliably, but for the ones that don't, I am lucky if
> I can get a catalog listing on them once in several tries. I am not
> sure if it is the duo disk not working, or if it is just the floppies
> are just too old.
>
> How can I tell if the problem is the duo disk unit, or the floppies
> being too old? What is the life expectancy of the data on the floppy
> disks? Are there any options on getting these old floppies to read so
> I can get the data off?
>

A few tips:

The Duo Disk may need to have head cleaning. If the floppy disks weren't
written with that particular disk drive, then the drive may need speed
adjustment or head alignment.

For the floppies, let them warm up to at least room temperature. They may
even need to be a bit warmer. Leave them in the floppy drive, or on the
Apple to let them warm up a bit more.

5.25" floppy disks will last several decades. I just booted 13-sector disk
with a date of 1979 two evenings ago for the first time (I didn't realize it
was 13-sector until then).

I have used all of these techniques to copy both Apple II and Macintosh
5.25" and 3.5" disks.

--
]DF$
Mac GUI Vault - A source for retro Apple II and
Macintosh computing.
http://macgui.com/vault/

Egan Ford

On Oct 18, 10:37*pm, jacobst <tomjacob...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> How can I tell if the problem is the duo disk unit, or the floppies
> being too old? *

Can you unbox your old system?

> What is the life expectancy of the data on the floppy
> disks? *

I recently recovered all the data from 12 A2 floppies (both sides)
dating back to 1983-1986 without issue. I used a //c and ADTPro. My
floppies had been stored for the most part in dark, cool, dry places
(I live in a high altitude desert climate).

> Are there any options on getting these old floppies to read so
> I can get the data off?

Other than what is mentioned by Finnigan, I'd try a different drive.
I would strongly recommend that you run ADTPro and image all your
disks ASAP.

Charlie

On 10/19/2011 12:37 AM, jacobst wrote:
> in the 80s I had an Apple II+. with a disk II drive. (Actually still
> have it, but it is boxed up).
> I wanted to get back into the Apple stuff, so I bought a IIgs on eBay
> that came with a duo disk.
> After setting up the IIgs, I am finding that most of my old 5.25 disks
> (not all) are not readable by the duo disk unit. the ones that work
> seem to work very reliably, but for the ones that don't, I am lucky if
> I can get a catalog listing on them once in several tries. I am not
> sure if it is the duo disk not working, or if it is just the floppies
> are just too old.
>
> How can I tell if the problem is the duo disk unit, or the floppies
> being too old? What is the life expectancy of the data on the floppy
> disks? Are there any options on getting these old floppies to read so
> I can get the data off?
>
> Thanks.
>

Is your Duodisk attached to the smartport? If so it may need to be
modified.

http://support.apple.com/kb/TA46264

If not it is still more likely the Duodisk is the weak link. If kept in
a relatively dry environment 5.25" floppies last longer than the drives
you put them in.

Charlie

Michael Black

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011, Charlie wrote:

> On 10/19/2011 12:37 AM, jacobst wrote:
>> in the 80s I had an Apple II+. with a disk II drive. (Actually still
>> have it, but it is boxed up).
>> I wanted to get back into the Apple stuff, so I bought a IIgs on eBay
>> that came with a duo disk.
>> After setting up the IIgs, I am finding that most of my old 5.25 disks
>> (not all) are not readable by the duo disk unit. the ones that work
>> seem to work very reliably, but for the ones that don't, I am lucky if
>> I can get a catalog listing on them once in several tries. I am not
>> sure if it is the duo disk not working, or if it is just the floppies
>> are just too old.
>>
>> How can I tell if the problem is the duo disk unit, or the floppies
>> being too old? What is the life expectancy of the data on the floppy
>> disks? Are there any options on getting these old floppies to read so
>> I can get the data off?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> Is your Duodisk attached to the smartport? If so it may need to be modified.
>
> http://support.apple.com/kb/TA46264
>
> If not it is still more likely the Duodisk is the weak link. If kept in a
> relatively dry environment 5.25" floppies last longer than the drives you put
> them in.
>
Do they go out of alignment? Or was the original drive the disks were
made on out of alignment, and while working fine, writes disks that aren't
compatible with a properly aligned disk? I don't know, I'm just thinking
of a possibility.

Michael

Charlie

On 10/19/2011 2:16 PM, Michael Black wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2011, Charlie wrote:
>
>> On 10/19/2011 12:37 AM, jacobst wrote:
>>> in the 80s I had an Apple II+. with a disk II drive. (Actually still
>>> have it, but it is boxed up).
>>> I wanted to get back into the Apple stuff, so I bought a IIgs on eBay
>>> that came with a duo disk.
>>> After setting up the IIgs, I am finding that most of my old 5.25 disks
>>> (not all) are not readable by the duo disk unit. the ones that work
>>> seem to work very reliably, but for the ones that don't, I am lucky if
>>> I can get a catalog listing on them once in several tries. I am not
>>> sure if it is the duo disk not working, or if it is just the floppies
>>> are just too old.
>>>
>>> How can I tell if the problem is the duo disk unit, or the floppies
>>> being too old? What is the life expectancy of the data on the floppy
>>> disks? Are there any options on getting these old floppies to read so
>>> I can get the data off?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>
>> Is your Duodisk attached to the smartport? If so it may need to be
>> modified.
>>
>> http://support.apple.com/kb/TA46264
>>
>> If not it is still more likely the Duodisk is the weak link. If kept
>> in a relatively dry environment 5.25" floppies last longer than the
>> drives you put them in.
>>
> Do they go out of alignment? Or was the original drive the disks were
> made on out of alignment, and while working fine, writes disks that
> aren't compatible with a properly aligned disk? I don't know, I'm just
> thinking of a possibility.
>
> Michael

That's certainly one possibility.
Speeds of the drives could be off or dirty heads, noise (electronic)
from bad shielding. Sticky lubricant can cause problems with the head
position. Bad capacitors, etc. There's just so many things that can go
wrong with something that is both electrical and mechanical.

Charlie

jacobst

On Oct 19, 3:06*pm, Charlie <charlieD...@verEYEzon.net> wrote:
> On 10/19/2011 2:16 PM, Michael Black wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 19 Oct 2011, Charlie wrote:
>
> >> On 10/19/2011 12:37 AM, jacobst wrote:
> >>> in the 80s I had an Apple II+. with a disk II drive. (Actually still
> >>> have it, but it is boxed up).
> >>> I wanted to get back into the Apple stuff, so I bought a IIgs on eBay
> >>> that came with a duo disk.
> >>> After setting up the IIgs, I am finding that most of my old 5.25 disks
> >>> (not all) are not readable by the duo disk unit. the ones that work
> >>> seem to work very reliably, but for the ones that don't, I am lucky if
> >>> I can get a catalog listing on them once in several tries. I am not
> >>> sure if it is the duo disk not working, or if it is just the floppies
> >>> are just too old.
>
> >>> How can I tell if the problem is the duo disk unit, or the floppies
> >>> being too old? What is the life expectancy of the data on the floppy
> >>> disks? Are there any options on getting these old floppies to read so
> >>> I can get the data off?
>
> >>> Thanks.
>
> >> Is your Duodisk attached to the smartport? If so it may need to be
> >> modified.
>
> >>http://support.apple.com/kb/TA46264
>
> >> If not it is still more likely the Duodisk is the weak link. If kept
> >> in a relatively dry environment 5.25" floppies last longer than the
> >> drives you put them in.
>
> > Do they go out of alignment? Or was the original drive the disks were
> > made on out of alignment, and while working fine, writes disks that
> > aren't compatible with a properly aligned disk? I don't know, I'm just
> > thinking of a possibility.
>
> > Michael
>
> That's certainly one possibility.
> Speeds of the drives could be off or dirty heads, noise (electronic)
> from bad shielding. *Sticky lubricant can cause problems with the head
> position. *Bad capacitors, etc. *There's just so many things that cango
> wrong with something that is both electrical and mechanical.
>
> Charlie

The original Disk II that the disks were made with was in alignment
when the disks were made back in the 80s because they worked on other
apple machines in school and my friends IIe. The drive that I don't
know the integrety of is the duo disk. Some of the floppies work
every time in the duo disk. What equipment do you need to do a speed
adjustment?

Also, I am using the floppy connector on the back of the unit. The
IIgs came with a 655-0101 "I/O Controller" card plugged in that I
understand is an interface card for connecting floppy drives. I
assumed that it was for the 3.5 floppy that came with the deal and
that the two interfaces (the card and the built in one) were
interchangeable when configured in the control panel. Is this true or
is there a difference?

Thanks for all your advice,

---Tom

Boot Zero

When I extracted most of my library, I had similar issues. Neither
drive in my original duo-disk could read anything. Tried two controller
cards, another duo-disk and a single floppy drive. I remember reading
somewhere that there are oils in the disk that seep to the surface with
age. These oils and other debris collect on the disk heads.

I opened the drive and gave it the full q-tip and alcohol treatment,
which allowed me to read a few more disks, then back to errors again. I
then tried a 5 1/4 disk cleaning kit (the one that looks like a floppy
disk) with some alcohol which cleaned the heads enough for a few more
disks. The cleaning kit was sufficient to solve the problem without
disassembling the unit.

The solution was clean heads, extract a few disks until you get errors,
then clean again. Rinse, repeat. This process, although time consuming
helped me recover about 75% of my collection.

-BZ

On 10/19/2011 12:37 AM, jacobst wrote:
> in the 80s I had an Apple II+. with a disk II drive. (Actually still
> have it, but it is boxed up).
> I wanted to get back into the Apple stuff, so I bought a IIgs on eBay
> that came with a duo disk.
> After setting up the IIgs, I am finding that most of my old 5.25 disks
> (not all) are not readable by the duo disk unit. the ones that work
> seem to work very reliably, but for the ones that don't, I am lucky if
> I can get a catalog listing on them once in several tries. I am not
> sure if it is the duo disk not working, or if it is just the floppies
> are just too old.
>
> How can I tell if the problem is the duo disk unit, or the floppies
> being too old? What is the life expectancy of the data on the floppy
> disks? Are there any options on getting these old floppies to read so
> I can get the data off?
>
> Thanks.
>

Holger

jacobst schrieb:

> How can I tell if the problem is the duo disk unit, or the floppies
> being too old? What is the life expectancy of the data on the floppy
> disks? Are there any options on getting these old floppies to read so
> I can get the data off?

I have diskettes, more than 30 years old, readable with no errors at
all. Getting data from unreadable diskettes is not necessarily reliable.
You can change your drives, you can clean your drives from dust, and you
should clean the rubber belt (if there is one inside of your drive) with
acetone and a kleenex. Don't readjust anything! A special treatment of
your diskettes is also not recommendable, as long as these diskettes
have been stored dry and dust free.

Holger