Marc S. Ressl

Hello everyone,

I have a silly question, does somebody know if a 16k language card
works in an Apple IIe, IIc or IIGS?

thanks a lot,

Marc.-

pd: my question is actually more technical, I'm wondering if the /INH
signal is always enabled when the LC is activated, or just enabled
when $D000-$FFFF are accessed?

mdj

On Nov 8, 4:08*pm, "Marc S. Ressl" <mre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I have a silly question, does somebody know if a 16k language card
> works in an Apple IIe, IIc or IIGS?

It would need to be one of the better-than-apple Language Cards that
didn't require the RAM umbilical, but other than that I don't see why
not.

> pd: my question is actually more technical, I'm wondering if the /INH
> signal is always enabled when the LC is activated, or just enabled
> when $D000-$FFFF are accessed?

/INH is asserted by an expansion card in response to some event; in
the case of a language card, it's during an access to $D000-$FFFF
whilst the language card memory is active.

On a standard Apple ][ or ][+ /INH only deactivates address decoding
for the onboard ROM. The IIe and IIgs however disable *all*
motherboard address decoding during /INH. Jim Sather's book describes
a very straightforward modification that will cause a standard Apple]
[ to behave the same way.

Matt

D Finnigan

mdj wrote:
>> pd: my question is actually more technical, I'm wondering if the /INH
>> signal is always enabled when the LC is activated, or just enabled
>> when $D000-$FFFF are accessed?
>
> /INH is asserted by an expansion card in response to some event; in
> the case of a language card, it's during an access to $D000-$FFFF
> whilst the language card memory is active.
>

Remember that the Language Card doesn't just add 16k of RAM, but also the
Autostart ROM.

Marc S. Ressl

On Nov 8, 4:16*am, mdj <mdj....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 8, 4:08*pm, "Marc S. Ressl" <mre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone,
>
> > I have a silly question, does somebody know if a 16k language card
> > works in an Apple IIe, IIc or IIGS?
>
> It would need to be one of the better-than-apple Language Cards that
> didn't require the RAM umbilical, but other than that I don't see why
> not.
>
> > pd: my question is actually more technical, I'm wondering if the /INH
> > signal is always enabled when the LC is activated, or just enabled
> > when $D000-$FFFF are accessed?
>
> /INH is asserted by an expansion card in response to some event; in
> the case of a language card, it's during an access to $D000-$FFFF
> whilst the language card memory is active.
>
> On a standard Apple ][ or ][+ /INH only deactivates address decoding
> for the onboard ROM. The IIe and IIgs however disable *all*
> motherboard address decoding during /INH. Jim Sather's book describes
> a very straightforward modification that will cause a standard Apple]
> [ to behave the same way.
>
> Matt

Hi Matt,

thanks for the response. My question is actually as follows: If I,
say, put the language card in slot 1 of an Apple IIe, and enable it by
accessing $C09x (x being that magic number I can't remember right
now), does the /INH go immediately high and thus make the computer
stop working (as not only $D000-$FFFF is disabled, but also $0000-
$BFFF)?, or does the language card do the $D000-$FFFF decoding, and
assert /INH only when that range is accessed?

I know this is a completely useless detail that most of us don't care,
but it became my hobbie some hours ago :-). I also have a reason for
making that question.

Best wishes,
and thanks!

Marc.-

ict@ccess

On Nov 8, 8:18*am, "Marc S. Ressl" <mre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 8, 4:16*am, mdj <mdj....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 8, 4:08*pm, "Marc S. Ressl" <mre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hello everyone,
>
> > > I have a silly question, does somebody know if a 16k language card
> > > works in an Apple IIe, IIc or IIGS?
>
> > It would need to be one of the better-than-apple Language Cards that
> > didn't require the RAM umbilical, but other than that I don't see why
> > not.
>
> > > pd: my question is actually more technical, I'm wondering if the /INH
> > > signal is always enabled when the LC is activated, or just enabled
> > > when $D000-$FFFF are accessed?
>
> > /INH is asserted by an expansion card in response to some event; in
> > the case of a language card, it's during an access to $D000-$FFFF
> > whilst the language card memory is active.
>
> > On a standard Apple ][ or ][+ /INH only deactivates address decoding
> > for the onboard ROM. The IIe and IIgs however disable *all*
> > motherboard address decoding during /INH. Jim Sather's book describes
> > a very straightforward modification that will cause a standard Apple]
> > [ to behave the same way.
>
> > Matt
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> thanks for the response. My question is actually as follows: If I,
> say, put the language card in slot 1 of an Apple IIe, and enable it by
> accessing $C09x (x being that magic number I can't remember right
> now), does the /INH go immediately high and thus make the computer
> stop working (as not only $D000-$FFFF is disabled, but also $0000-
> $BFFF)?, or does the language card do the $D000-$FFFF decoding, and
> assert /INH only when that range is accessed?
>
> I know this is a completely useless detail that most of us don't care,
> but it became my hobbie some hours ago :-). I also have a reason for
> making that question.
>
> Best wishes,
> and thanks!
>
> Marc.-


You can store a ML program in a memory card and it can run there but
it cannot directly access the $D000 - $FFFF ROM. You would have jump
to an address in the main 48k, switch out the slot card RAM and switch
in the motherboard ROM. Anything below $C000 which is the main 48k is
not affected when the slot card RAM is engaged or running a program.

I have a 128 kb RAM card that uses the softswitches to access the 8
banks of 16 kb each and have written a RAMdisk program for it and can
also store executable ML code to run a program from it. But when the
card is engaged, it cannot directly access the ROM.

Rob

mdj

On Nov 9, 12:18*am, "Marc S. Ressl" <mre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Matt,
>
> thanks for the response. My question is actually as follows: If I,
> say, put the language card in slot 1 of an Apple IIe, and enable it by
> accessing $C09x (x being that magic number I can't remember right
> now), does the /INH go immediately high and thus make the computer
> stop working (as not only $D000-$FFFF is disabled, but also $0000-
> $BFFF)?, or does the language card do the $D000-$FFFF decoding, and
> assert /INH only when that range is accessed?

Only during an access to that range. As a previous poster mentioned,
the Apple language card also replaces the autostart ROM, using
precisely this technique to only inhibit part of the ROM. This would
be a 'bad thing' on a IIe, so if you were actually going to try this
you'd want to use a clone language card that lacks this feature.

> I know this is a completely useless detail that most of us don't care,
> but it became my hobbie some hours ago :-). I also have a reason for
> making that question.

Care to share what the reason is ? :-)

Marc S. Ressl

On Nov 9, 2:39*am, mdj <mdj....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 9, 12:18*am, "Marc S. Ressl" <mre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Matt,
>
> > thanks for the response. My question is actually as follows: If I,
> > say, put the language card in slot 1 of an Apple IIe, and enable it by
> > accessing $C09x (x being that magic number I can't remember right
> > now), does the /INH go immediately high and thus make the computer
> > stop working (as not only $D000-$FFFF is disabled, but also $0000-
> > $BFFF)?, or does the language card do the $D000-$FFFF decoding, and
> > assert /INH only when that range is accessed?
>
> Only during an access to that range. As a previous poster mentioned,
> the Apple language card also replaces the autostart ROM, using
> precisely this technique to only inhibit part of the ROM. This would
> be a 'bad thing' on a IIe, so if you were actually going to try this
> you'd want to use a clone language card that lacks this feature.
>
> > I know this is a completely useless detail that most of us don't care,
> > but it became my hobbie some hours ago :-). I also have a reason for
> > making that question.

Thanks for all the responses!

> Care to share what the reason is ? :-)

It's very easy, I just want to accurately emulate it. :-)

With the best wishes,

Marc.-