Steven Hirsch

All,

Can anyone tell me whether the IIc+ smartport firmware is supposed to
recognize more than a total of two active devices on the bus? I'm trying to
help Cedric figure out why it's not enumerating all the volumes on the spvhd.

To levelset the experiment, I connected two daisy-chained Apple 3.5 drives to
the external disk port (no spvhd involved). If I boot from the internal
drive, it sees only the first external drive. I expected the second to show
up at S2,D1, but it does not. If I do not have a diskette in the internal
drive, it boots from the first external 3.5 and sees the second as S5,D2.

No matter what I've tried, it does not seem to map anything into S2 (or any
other than I can find).

Is this expected? The earlier //c has no problem with both a 3-volume spvhd
and my trusty Unidisk 3.5.

Steve

David Schmidt

On 11/6/2011 12:13 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
> All,
>
> Can anyone tell me whether the IIc+ smartport firmware is supposed to
> recognize more than a total of two active devices on the bus? I'm trying
> to help Cedric figure out why it's not enumerating all the volumes on
> the spvhd.

Steve -

It matters what version of ProDOS you are booting from. Some have
support for a max of 2 drives, others can see more. What versions are
you trying?

Steven Hirsch

On 11/06/2011 12:25 PM, David Schmidt wrote:
> On 11/6/2011 12:13 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> Can anyone tell me whether the IIc+ smartport firmware is supposed to
>> recognize more than a total of two active devices on the bus? I'm trying
>> to help Cedric figure out why it's not enumerating all the volumes on
>> the spvhd.
>
> Steve -
>
> It matters what version of ProDOS you are booting from. Some have support for
> a max of 2 drives, others can see more. What versions are you trying?

You are quite correct... I had managed to grab a very old version of ProDOS
from my experiments. Just retried with P8 1.3 and it sees all the drives.
For some reason I thought this was a function of firmware.

Bill Garber

"Steven Hirsch" <snhirsch@gmail.com> wrote in message news:GZOdnQQA2ocVTCvTnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
> On 11/06/2011 12:25 PM, David Schmidt wrote:
>> On 11/6/2011 12:13 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
>>> All,
>>>
>>> Can anyone tell me whether the IIc+ smartport firmware
>>> is supposed to recognize more than a total of two active
>>> devices on the bus? I'm trying to help Cedric figure out
>>> why it's not enumerating all the volumes on the spvhd.
>>
>> Steve -
>>
>> It matters what version of ProDOS you are booting from.
>> Some have support for a max of 2 drives, others can see
>> more. What versions are you trying?
>
> You are quite correct... I had managed to grab a very
> old version of ProDOS from my experiments. Just retried
> with P8 1.3 and it sees all the drives. For some reason
> I thought this was a function of firmware.

Glad that is resolved, because I am planning to get one of
these nifty devices to use with my IIc and IIc+ and would
be sad if it didn't work on the IIc+.

Bill

Steven Hirsch

On 11/06/2011 03:37 PM, Bill Garber wrote:
>
> "Steven Hirsch"<snhirsch@gmail.com> wrote in message news:GZOdnQQA2ocVTCvTnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>> On 11/06/2011 12:25 PM, David Schmidt wrote:
>>> On 11/6/2011 12:13 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone tell me whether the IIc+ smartport firmware
>>>> is supposed to recognize more than a total of two active
>>>> devices on the bus? I'm trying to help Cedric figure out
>>>> why it's not enumerating all the volumes on the spvhd.
>>>
>>> Steve -
>>>
>>> It matters what version of ProDOS you are booting from.
>>> Some have support for a max of 2 drives, others can see
>>> more. What versions are you trying?
>>
>> You are quite correct... I had managed to grab a very
>> old version of ProDOS from my experiments. Just retried
>> with P8 1.3 and it sees all the drives. For some reason
>> I thought this was a function of firmware.
>
> Glad that is resolved, because I am planning to get one of
> these nifty devices to use with my IIc and IIc+ and would
> be sad if it didn't work on the IIc+.

At this point, the primary issue with IIc+ is that it won't boot the spvhd.
Both the IIgs and IIc+ try to access the spvhd a bit before its firmware comes
ready, so you generally need an immediate Oa-Ctrl-Reset after powerup. Then,
you can do PR#5 and boot from the internal 3.5 diskette. When P8 comes up, as
many as three virtual disks will be recognized (assuming you aren't using an
ancient ProDOS 8).

I don't consider this any sort of show-stopper and I'm sure Cedric will sort
out the firmware.

Steve

ict@ccess

On Nov 6, 3:29*pm, Steven Hirsch <snhir...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/06/2011 03:37 PM, Bill Garber wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Steven Hirsch"<snhir...@gmail.com> *wrote in messagenews:GZOdnQQA2ocVTCvTnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@gigan ews.com...
> >> On 11/06/2011 12:25 PM, David Schmidt wrote:
> >>> On 11/6/2011 12:13 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
> >>>> All,
>
> >>>> Can anyone tell me whether the IIc+ smartport firmware
> >>>> is supposed to recognize more than a total of two active
> >>>> devices on the bus? I'm trying to help Cedric figure out
> >>>> why it's not enumerating all the volumes on the spvhd.
>
> >>> Steve -
>
> >>> It matters what version of ProDOS you are booting from.
> >>> Some have support for a max of 2 drives, others can see
> >>> more. What versions are you trying?
>
> >> You are quite correct... *I had managed to grab a very
> >> old version of ProDOS from my experiments. *Just retried
> >> with P8 1.3 and it sees all the drives. For some reason
> >> I thought this was a function of firmware.
>
> > Glad that is resolved, because I am planning to get one of
> > these nifty devices to use with my IIc and IIc+ and would
> > be sad if it didn't work on the IIc+.
>
> At this point, the primary issue with IIc+ is that it won't boot the spvhd.
> Both the IIgs and IIc+ try to access the spvhd a bit before its firmware comes
> ready, so you generally need an immediate Oa-Ctrl-Reset after powerup. *Then,
> you can do PR#5 and boot from the internal 3.5 diskette. *When P8 comesup, as
> many as three virtual disks will be recognized (assuming you aren't usingan
> ancient ProDOS 8).
>
> I don't consider this any sort of show-stopper and I'm sure Cedric will sort
> out the firmware.
>
> Steve

ict@ccess

On Nov 6, 3:29*pm, Steven Hirsch <snhir...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/06/2011 03:37 PM, Bill Garber wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Steven Hirsch"<snhir...@gmail.com> *wrote in messagenews:GZOdnQQA2ocVTCvTnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@gigan ews.com...
> >> On 11/06/2011 12:25 PM, David Schmidt wrote:
> >>> On 11/6/2011 12:13 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
> >>>> All,
>
> >>>> Can anyone tell me whether the IIc+ smartport firmware
> >>>> is supposed to recognize more than a total of two active
> >>>> devices on the bus? I'm trying to help Cedric figure out
> >>>> why it's not enumerating all the volumes on the spvhd.
>
> >>> Steve -
>
> >>> It matters what version of ProDOS you are booting from.
> >>> Some have support for a max of 2 drives, others can see
> >>> more. What versions are you trying?
>
> >> You are quite correct... *I had managed to grab a very
> >> old version of ProDOS from my experiments. *Just retried
> >> with P8 1.3 and it sees all the drives. For some reason
> >> I thought this was a function of firmware.
>
> > Glad that is resolved, because I am planning to get one of
> > these nifty devices to use with my IIc and IIc+ and would
> > be sad if it didn't work on the IIc+.
>
> At this point, the primary issue with IIc+ is that it won't boot the spvhd.
> Both the IIgs and IIc+ try to access the spvhd a bit before its firmware comes
> ready, so you generally need an immediate Oa-Ctrl-Reset after powerup. *Then,
> you can do PR#5 and boot from the internal 3.5 diskette. *When P8 comesup, as
> many as three virtual disks will be recognized (assuming you aren't usingan
> ancient ProDOS 8).
>
> I don't consider this any sort of show-stopper and I'm sure Cedric will sort
> out the firmware.
>
> Steve


If I am not mistaken, on my IIc+, the internal 3.5 shows up as slot 5
drive 1 but my external 3.5 shows up as slot 7, drive 1.

It does not get mapped to slot 2 like smart port is supposed to work.

Rob

Michael J. Mahon

Steven Hirsch <snhirsch@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/06/2011 03:37 PM, Bill Garber wrote:
>>
>> "Steven Hirsch"<snhirsch@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:GZOdnQQA2ocVTCvTnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>>> On 11/06/2011 12:25 PM, David Schmidt wrote:
>>>> On 11/6/2011 12:13 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone tell me whether the IIc+ smartport firmware
>>>>> is supposed to recognize more than a total of two active
>>>>> devices on the bus? I'm trying to help Cedric figure out
>>>>> why it's not enumerating all the volumes on the spvhd.
>>>>
>>>> Steve -
>>>>
>>>> It matters what version of ProDOS you are booting from.
>>>> Some have support for a max of 2 drives, others can see
>>>> more. What versions are you trying?
>>>
>>> You are quite correct... I had managed to grab a very
>>> old version of ProDOS from my experiments. Just retried
>>> with P8 1.3 and it sees all the drives. For some reason
>>> I thought this was a function of firmware.
>>
>> Glad that is resolved, because I am planning to get one of
>> these nifty devices to use with my IIc and IIc+ and would
>> be sad if it didn't work on the IIc+.
>
> At this point, the primary issue with IIc+ is that it won't boot the
> spvhd. Both the IIgs and IIc+ try to access the spvhd a bit before its
> firmware comes ready, so you generally need an immediate Oa-Ctrl-Reset
> after powerup. Then, you can do PR#5 and boot from the internal 3.5
> diskette. When P8 comes up, as many as three virtual disks will be
> recognized (assuming you aren't using an ancient ProDOS 8).
>
> I don't consider this any sort of show-stopper and I'm sure Cedric will
> sort out the firmware.
>
> Steve

I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't keep mapping logical devices until it
runs out of mappable slots.

-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

Steven Hirsch

On 11/06/2011 11:36 PM, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> Steven Hirsch<snhirsch@gmail.com> wrote:

>> At this point, the primary issue with IIc+ is that it won't boot the
>> spvhd. Both the IIgs and IIc+ try to access the spvhd a bit before its
>> firmware comes ready, so you generally need an immediate Oa-Ctrl-Reset
>> after powerup. Then, you can do PR#5 and boot from the internal 3.5
>> diskette. When P8 comes up, as many as three virtual disks will be
>> recognized (assuming you aren't using an ancient ProDOS 8).
>>
>> I don't consider this any sort of show-stopper and I'm sure Cedric will
>> sort out the firmware.
>>
>> Steve
>
> I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't keep mapping logical devices until it
> runs out of mappable slots.

Apple's specs claim support for a total of (4) devices on the Smart bus. That
limit appears to be real.

Peltier Cedric

Le 07/11/2011 13:54, Steven Hirsch a écrit :
> On 11/06/2011 11:36 PM, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>> Steven Hirsch<snhirsch@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> At this point, the primary issue with IIc+ is that it won't boot the
>>> spvhd. Both the IIgs and IIc+ try to access the spvhd a bit before its
>>> firmware comes ready, so you generally need an immediate Oa-Ctrl-Reset
>>> after powerup. Then, you can do PR#5 and boot from the internal 3.5
>>> diskette. When P8 comes up, as many as three virtual disks will be
>>> recognized (assuming you aren't using an ancient ProDOS 8).
>>>
>>> I don't consider this any sort of show-stopper and I'm sure Cedric will
>>> sort out the firmware.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>> I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't keep mapping logical devices until it
>> runs out of mappable slots.
>
> Apple's specs claim support for a total of (4) devices on the Smart bus.
> That limit appears to be real.
>

Initialy the SPVHD was limited to 4 virtuals drives, but I pushed this
limit up to 10 virtuals drives after a discussion with Geoff Weiss.
Prodos 8 2.0.3 seem to be able to map more than 4 devices using all
available slots. Nevertheless, some 8 bits applications don't handle
nicely so much devices.
The devices limitation should be correlated with electrical limitation
at the time, and I suppose the maximum number of devices that Prodos 8
can handle evolved to follow hardware evolutions.

Cedric