sfahey

To: Michael J. Mahon
Re: Re: Got myself a Tiger Learning Computer today
By: Michael J. Mahon to comp.sys.apple2 on Thu Sep 02 2010 11:42 pm

> This year at KFest I used my tongue on a Nadanet cable (~4v peak,
> pulsed) to verify that data was being sent. ;-)

It's true... one eye blinked every time there was a collision detected, while
the other eye was wide open, indicating a good link, and Michael was even able
to diagnose the campus network using the layer 3 receptors on his tongue.

Sean Fahey
www.a2central.com
bbs.a2central.com

Michael J. Mahon

On 9/4/2010 11:44 AM, sfahey wrote:
> To: Michael J. Mahon
> Re: Re: Got myself a Tiger Learning Computer today
> By: Michael J. Mahon to comp.sys.apple2 on Thu Sep 02 2010 11:42 pm
>
> > This year at KFest I used my tongue on a Nadanet cable (~4v peak,
> > pulsed) to verify that data was being sent. ;-)
>
> It's true... one eye blinked every time there was a collision detected, while
> the other eye was wide open, indicating a good link, and Michael was even able
> to diagnose the campus network using the layer 3 receptors on his tongue.

....and I really hate it when I taste a bunch of ACKs. ;-)

-michael

NadaNet 3.1 for Apple II parallel computing!
Home page: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."

Michael J. Mahon

On 9/3/2010 3:30 AM, schmidtd wrote:
> On Sep 3, 12:13 am, BLuRry<brendan.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 2, 8:56 pm, schmidtd<schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 2, 7:28 am, schmidtd<schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> On Sep 2, 1:21 am, BLuRry<brendan.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Aug 31, 9:32 pm, schmidtd<schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> On Aug 31, 5:37 pm, BLuRry<brendan.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 31, 9:47 am, "bill.mart...@gmail.com"<bill.mart...@gmail.co m>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 31, 10:45 pm, "sfahey"<sfa...@a2central.com.remove-trg-this>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>> To: bill.mart...@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> Re: Re: Got myself a Tiger Learning Computer today
>>>>>>>>> By: bill.mart...@gmail.com to comp.sys.apple2 on Tue Aug 31 2010 03:47 am
>>
>>>>>>>>> > The only other one I have seen is the one Ed Eastman brought to KFest
>>>>>>>>> > 2003. Maybe he has a bit more of a clue on how the beast works and
>>>>>>>>> > can help you out.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Jay Edwards, not Ed Eastman.
>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.gamebits.net/gallery/kfes...source/29.html
>>
>>>>>>>>> Sean Faheywww.a2central.com
>>>>>>>>> bbs.a2central.com
>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for correcting me Sean. My memory is getting a bit hazy these
>>>>>>>> days.
>>
>>>>>>> Can you get to the monitor? If so, might want to have a look from
>>>>>>> c200 to c2ff -- also see if accessing that memory range does any
>>>>>>> bankswitching of c800-cfff -- could be some buried treasure in the
>>>>>>> rom.
>>>>>>> If not, I can send you a short routine to key-in just to blast out a
>>>>>>> test message.
>>
>>>>>> @Sean - I got in touch with Jay, thanks.
>>
>>>>>> @B - Yep, you get full access to the machine. Firmware in c200-c2ff
>>>>>> is identical to AppleWin's in the same slot. No telling what the
>>>>>> hardware is doing behind the scenes, though. I forgot to check if
>>>>>> c8xx changes on c2xx access... will have to do that another time.
>>
>>>>>> I keyed in a modified Apple /// grub bootstrapper, just to see if it
>>>>>> would recognize incoming serial characters - it did not, based on my
>>>>>> assumptions:
>>>>>> 0) Port is set to 9600,n,8,1 by default and embedded COM program
>>>>>> 1) Standard SSC ACIA hardware addresses in slot 2
>>>>>> 2) The serial port is the male DE-9 connector
>>>>>> 3) You need a null modem between the TLC and the Real World
>>
>>>>> I recommend having it blast out the same series of characters over and
>>>>> over -- then on the real world side keep adjusting the serial port
>>>>> parameters until you get the correct data over the wire. You could
>>>>> probably write a small assembler loop like the following:
>>
>>>>> loop1 ldy #'A'
>>>>> loop2 lda ACIA_STATUS
>>>>> bit #CLEAR TO SEND MASK (forgot that one off the top of my
>>>>> head)
>>>>> beq loop2
>>>>> (note: you could replace the polling above with some other function
>>>>> that takes 55 cycles to finish, in the case of 115200 baud. For
>>>>> slower speeds, double/triple that, etc)
>>>>> sty ACIA_DATA
>>>>> cpy #'Z'
>>>>> beq loop1
>>>>> bne loop2
>>
>>>>> Something like that anyway
>>
>>>> Yep, perfect - I can muck about with that to see if it's trying to
>>>> send anything. And I'll check with a voltmeter first to see if
>>>> anything ends up on the wire in the first place... ;-)
>>
>>> I'm not convinced the serial port is viable on my machine. I get the
>>> normal status out of the status register when nothing's attached, but
>>> when I hook up the other side via a null modem, the status doesn't
>>> change (at all) the way other SSC machines do. So, lots of tweaks to
>>> the configuration registers later, I still don't have anything coming
>>> out the wire.
>>
>>> I pulled the top off the machine - lots of custom logic (and trace
>>> wires...), but no big juicy 6551 to replace. :-(
>>
>> Anything that resembles traces to a tape or joystick port?
>
> Tiger is very unlike Apple - their boards are not labeled with human
> friendly markings. But there is a joystick port - I was thinking this
> was IIc-based, but maybe it's IIe - and I can use NadaNet!

That would be very cool--but it will also need at least one annunciator
output...(only on the 16-pin game port).

-michael

NadaNet 3.1 for Apple II parallel computing!
Home page: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."

BLuRry

On Sep 4, 5:36*pm, "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote:
> On 9/4/2010 11:44 AM, sfahey wrote:
>
> > * *To: Michael J. Mahon
> > * *Re: Re: Got myself a Tiger Learning Computer today
> > * *By: Michael J. Mahon to comp.sys.apple2 on Thu Sep 02 2010 11:42pm
>
> > * > *This year at KFest I used my tongue on a Nadanet cable (~4v peak,
> > * > *pulsed) to verify that data was being sent. *;-)
>
> > It's true... one eye blinked every time there was a collision detected,while
> > the other eye was wide open, indicating a good link, and Michael was even able
> > to diagnose the campus network using the layer 3 receptors on his tongue.
>
> ...and I really hate it when I taste a bunch of ACKs. *;-)
>
> -michael
>
> NadaNet 3.1 for Apple II parallel computing!
> Home page: *http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon/
>
> "The wastebasket is our most important design
> tool--and it's seriously underused."

Indeed!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SAH5KguPfS...ll-The-Cat.jpg

-B

Michael J. Mahon

On 9/3/2010 9:32 AM, schmidtd wrote:
> On Sep 3, 11:47 am, Eric Rucker<bhtoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 2, 9:56 pm, schmidtd<schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not convinced the serial port is viable on my machine. I get the
>>> normal status out of the status register when nothing's attached, but
>>> when I hook up the other side via a null modem, the status doesn't
>>> change (at all) the way other SSC machines do. So, lots of tweaks to
>>> the configuration registers later, I still don't have anything coming
>>> out the wire.
>>
>> Could it possibly be TTL levels, rather than RS-232 levels?
>
> On a Commodore 64, sure - but this machine was made in 1996. The
> advertisements suggested that there was an upcoming communications
> package that would connect to the 'net, which would (at the time) have
> required a typical external modem at the other end of the serial port.

But perhaps they intended to add a level shifter in a special "cable".

It would be very helpful to look at the TX pin with a 'scope.

-michael

NadaNet 3.1 for Apple II parallel computing!
Home page: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."

BLuRry

On Sep 4, 5:39*pm, "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote:
> On 9/3/2010 9:32 AM, schmidtd wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 3, 11:47 am, Eric Rucker<bhtoo...@gmail.com> *wrote:
> >> On Sep 2, 9:56 pm, schmidtd<schmi...@my-deja.com> *wrote:
>
> >>> I'm not convinced the serial port is viable on my machine. *I get the
> >>> normal status out of the status register when nothing's attached, but
> >>> when I hook up the other side via a null modem, the status doesn't
> >>> change (at all) the way other SSC machines do. *So, lots of tweaks to
> >>> the configuration registers later, I still don't have anything coming
> >>> out the wire.
>
> >> Could it possibly be TTL levels, rather than RS-232 levels?
>
> > On a Commodore 64, sure - but this machine was made in 1996. *The
> > advertisements suggested that there was an upcoming communications
> > package that would connect to the 'net, which would (at the time) have
> > required a typical external modem at the other end of the serial port.
>
> But perhaps they intended to add a level shifter in a special "cable".
>
> It would be very helpful to look at the TX pin with a 'scope.
>
> -michael
>
> NadaNet 3.1 for Apple II parallel computing!
> Home page: *http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon/
>
> "The wastebasket is our most important design
> tool--and it's seriously underused."

If you find the values are 3.3v then you can get a Nokia CA-42 cable
for cheap ($4 or less, free shipping) on ePay and get USB-to-TTL
serial for cheap. I've had to un-brick a segate dockstar recently so
I can vouch for it. :-D 115200 baud runs stable, too.

-Brendan

sfahey

To: Michael J. Mahon
Re: Re: Got myself a Tiger Learning Computer today
By: Michael J. Mahon to comp.sys.apple2 on Sat Sep 04 2010 03:36 pm

> ...and I really hate it when I taste a bunch of ACKs. ;-)

snACKs?

Sean Fahey
www.a2central.com
bbs.a2central.com

Michael J. Mahon

On 9/6/2010 8:14 AM, sfahey wrote:
> To: Michael J. Mahon
> Re: Re: Got myself a Tiger Learning Computer today
> By: Michael J. Mahon to comp.sys.apple2 on Sat Sep 04 2010 03:36 pm
>
> > ...and I really hate it when I taste a bunch of ACKs. ;-)
>
> snACKs?

sNAKs? ;-)

-michael

NadaNet 3.1 for Apple II parallel computing!
Home page: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."

mdj

On Sep 7, 11:48*am, "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote:
> On 9/6/2010 8:14 AM, sfahey wrote:
>
> > * *To: Michael J. Mahon
> > * *Re: Re: Got myself a Tiger Learning Computer today
> > * *By: Michael J. Mahon to comp.sys.apple2 on Sat Sep 04 2010 03:36pm
>
> > * > *...and I really hate it when I taste a bunch of ACKs. *;-)
>
> > snACKs?
>
> sNAKs? *;-)

Oh, that's just SYNful ...