schmidtd

On Sep 2, 1:48*pm, BLuRry <brendan.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Volt meter? *:-) *You can see the voltage reading bounce around on the
> RX pin when there's data coming over. *If anything, it's the best
> thing to check that you're not going to blow a serial port elsewhere.

One time, I had a guy tell me he just stuck his tongue against the
pins to feel for it... I figure I'll use a slightly more sanitary
method.

D Finnigan

schmidtd wrote:
> One time, I had a guy tell me he just stuck his tongue against the
> pins to feel for it... I figure I'll use a slightly more sanitary
> method.
>

Or just brush your teeth beforehand. :-P

Actually, that reminds me of the story of why Capn Cruch was missing teeth--
because he was using his teeth to strip phone wire when the phone rang.

schmidtd

On Sep 2, 7:28*am, schmidtd <schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 1:21*am, BLuRry <brendan.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 31, 9:32*pm, schmidtd <schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 31, 5:37*pm, BLuRry <brendan.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 31, 9:47*am, "bill.mart...@gmail.com" <bill.mart...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Aug 31, 10:45*pm, "sfahey" <sfa...@a2central.com.remove-trg-this>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > * To: bill.mart...@gmail.com
> > > > > > * Re: Re: Got myself a Tiger Learning Computer today
> > > > > > * By: bill.mart...@gmail.com to comp.sys.apple2 on Tue Aug 312010 03:47 am
>
> > > > > > *> The only other one I have seen is the one Ed Eastman brought to KFest
> > > > > > *> 2003. *Maybe he has a bit more of a clue on how the beast works and
> > > > > > *> can help you out.
>
> > > > > > Jay Edwards, not Ed Eastman.
>
> > > > > >http://www.gamebits.net/gallery/kfes...source/29.html
>
> > > > > > Sean Faheywww.a2central.com
> > > > > > bbs.a2central.com
>
> > > > > Thanks for correcting me Sean. * My memory is getting a bit hazy these
> > > > > days.
>
> > > > Can you get to the monitor? *If so, might want to have a look from
> > > > c200 to c2ff -- also see if accessing that memory range does any
> > > > bankswitching of c800-cfff -- could be some buried treasure in the
> > > > rom.
> > > > If not, I can send you a short routine to key-in just to blast out a
> > > > test message.
>
> > > @Sean - I got in touch with Jay, thanks.
>
> > > @B - Yep, you get full access to the machine. *Firmware in c200-c2ff
> > > is identical to AppleWin's in the same slot. *No telling what the
> > > hardware is doing behind the scenes, though. *I forgot to check if
> > > c8xx changes on c2xx access... will have to do that another time.
>
> > > I keyed in a modified Apple /// grub bootstrapper, just to see if it
> > > would recognize incoming serial characters - it did not, based on my
> > > assumptions:
> > > 0) Port is set to 9600,n,8,1 by default and embedded COM program
> > > 1) Standard SSC ACIA hardware addresses in slot 2
> > > 2) The serial port is the male DE-9 connector
> > > 3) You need a null modem between the TLC and the Real World
>
> > I recommend having it blast out the same series of characters over and
> > over -- then on the real world side keep adjusting the serial port
> > parameters until you get the correct data over the wire. *You could
> > probably write a small assembler loop like the following:
>
> > loop1 ldy #'A'
> > loop2 lda ACIA_STATUS
> > * * * * *bit #CLEAR TO SEND MASK *(forgot that one off the top of my
> > head)
> > * * * * *beq loop2
> > (note: you could replace the polling above with some other function
> > that takes 55 cycles to finish, in the case of 115200 baud. *For
> > slower speeds, double/triple that, etc)
> > * * * * *sty ACIA_DATA
> > * * * * *cpy #'Z'
> > * * * * *beq loop1
> > * * * * *bne loop2
>
> > Something like that anyway
>
> Yep, perfect - I can muck about with that to see if it's trying to
> send anything. *And I'll check with a voltmeter first to see if
> anything ends up on the wire in the first place... ;-)

I'm not convinced the serial port is viable on my machine. I get the
normal status out of the status register when nothing's attached, but
when I hook up the other side via a null modem, the status doesn't
change (at all) the way other SSC machines do. So, lots of tweaks to
the configuration registers later, I still don't have anything coming
out the wire.

I pulled the top off the machine - lots of custom logic (and trace
wires...), but no big juicy 6551 to replace. :-(

BLuRry

On Sep 2, 8:56*pm, schmidtd <schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 7:28*am, schmidtd <schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 2, 1:21*am, BLuRry <brendan.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 31, 9:32*pm, schmidtd <schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 31, 5:37*pm, BLuRry <brendan.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Aug 31, 9:47*am, "bill.mart...@gmail.com" <bill.mart...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Aug 31, 10:45*pm, "sfahey" <sfa...@a2central.com.remove-trg-this>
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > * To: bill.mart...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > * Re: Re: Got myself a Tiger Learning Computer today
> > > > > > > * By: bill.mart...@gmail.com to comp.sys.apple2 on Tue Aug 31 2010 03:47 am
>
> > > > > > > *> The only other one I have seen is the one Ed Eastman brought to KFest
> > > > > > > *> 2003. *Maybe he has a bit more of a clue on how the beast works and
> > > > > > > *> can help you out.
>
> > > > > > > Jay Edwards, not Ed Eastman.
>
> > > > > > >http://www.gamebits.net/gallery/kfes...source/29.html
>
> > > > > > > Sean Faheywww.a2central.com
> > > > > > > bbs.a2central.com
>
> > > > > > Thanks for correcting me Sean. * My memory is getting a bit hazy these
> > > > > > days.
>
> > > > > Can you get to the monitor? *If so, might want to have a look from
> > > > > c200 to c2ff -- also see if accessing that memory range does any
> > > > > bankswitching of c800-cfff -- could be some buried treasure in the
> > > > > rom.
> > > > > If not, I can send you a short routine to key-in just to blast out a
> > > > > test message.
>
> > > > @Sean - I got in touch with Jay, thanks.
>
> > > > @B - Yep, you get full access to the machine. *Firmware in c200-c2ff
> > > > is identical to AppleWin's in the same slot. *No telling what the
> > > > hardware is doing behind the scenes, though. *I forgot to check if
> > > > c8xx changes on c2xx access... will have to do that another time.
>
> > > > I keyed in a modified Apple /// grub bootstrapper, just to see if it
> > > > would recognize incoming serial characters - it did not, based on my
> > > > assumptions:
> > > > 0) Port is set to 9600,n,8,1 by default and embedded COM program
> > > > 1) Standard SSC ACIA hardware addresses in slot 2
> > > > 2) The serial port is the male DE-9 connector
> > > > 3) You need a null modem between the TLC and the Real World
>
> > > I recommend having it blast out the same series of characters over and
> > > over -- then on the real world side keep adjusting the serial port
> > > parameters until you get the correct data over the wire. *You could
> > > probably write a small assembler loop like the following:
>
> > > loop1 ldy #'A'
> > > loop2 lda ACIA_STATUS
> > > * * * * *bit #CLEAR TO SEND MASK *(forgot that one off the top of my
> > > head)
> > > * * * * *beq loop2
> > > (note: you could replace the polling above with some other function
> > > that takes 55 cycles to finish, in the case of 115200 baud. *For
> > > slower speeds, double/triple that, etc)
> > > * * * * *sty ACIA_DATA
> > > * * * * *cpy #'Z'
> > > * * * * *beq loop1
> > > * * * * *bne loop2
>
> > > Something like that anyway
>
> > Yep, perfect - I can muck about with that to see if it's trying to
> > send anything. *And I'll check with a voltmeter first to see if
> > anything ends up on the wire in the first place... ;-)
>
> I'm not convinced the serial port is viable on my machine. *I get the
> normal status out of the status register when nothing's attached, but
> when I hook up the other side via a null modem, the status doesn't
> change (at all) the way other SSC machines do. *So, lots of tweaks to
> the configuration registers later, I still don't have anything coming
> out the wire.
>
> I pulled the top off the machine - lots of custom logic (and trace
> wires...), but no big juicy 6551 to replace. :-(

Anything that resembles traces to a tape or joystick port?

Michael J. Mahon

schmidtd <schmidtd@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 1:48 pm, BLuRry <brendan.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Volt meter? :-) You can see the voltage reading bounce around on
> > the
>> RX pin when there's data coming over. If anything, it's the best
>> thing to check that you're not going to blow a serial port elsewhere.
>
> One time, I had a guy tell me he just stuck his tongue against the
> pins to feel for it... I figure I'll use a slightly more sanitary
> method.

This year at KFest I used my tongue on a Nadanet cable (~4v peak,
pulsed) to verify that data was being sent. ;-)

-michael - NadaNet 3.1: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

schmidtd

On Sep 3, 12:13*am, BLuRry <brendan.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 8:56*pm, schmidtd <schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 2, 7:28*am, schmidtd <schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 2, 1:21*am, BLuRry <brendan.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 31, 9:32*pm, schmidtd <schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Aug 31, 5:37*pm, BLuRry <brendan.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Aug 31, 9:47*am, "bill.mart...@gmail.com" <bill.mart...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Aug 31, 10:45*pm, "sfahey" <sfa...@a2central.com.remove-trg-this>
> > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > * To: bill.mart...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > * Re: Re: Got myself a Tiger Learning Computer today
> > > > > > > > * By: bill.mart...@gmail.com to comp.sys.apple2 on Tue Aug 31 2010 03:47 am
>
> > > > > > > > *> The only other one I have seen is the one Ed Eastman brought to KFest
> > > > > > > > *> 2003. *Maybe he has a bit more of a clue on how the beast works and
> > > > > > > > *> can help you out.
>
> > > > > > > > Jay Edwards, not Ed Eastman.
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.gamebits.net/gallery/kfes...source/29.html
>
> > > > > > > > Sean Faheywww.a2central.com
> > > > > > > > bbs.a2central.com
>
> > > > > > > Thanks for correcting me Sean. * My memory is getting a bithazy these
> > > > > > > days.
>
> > > > > > Can you get to the monitor? *If so, might want to have a lookfrom
> > > > > > c200 to c2ff -- also see if accessing that memory range does any
> > > > > > bankswitching of c800-cfff -- could be some buried treasure in the
> > > > > > rom.
> > > > > > If not, I can send you a short routine to key-in just to blast out a
> > > > > > test message.
>
> > > > > @Sean - I got in touch with Jay, thanks.
>
> > > > > @B - Yep, you get full access to the machine. *Firmware in c200-c2ff
> > > > > is identical to AppleWin's in the same slot. *No telling what the
> > > > > hardware is doing behind the scenes, though. *I forgot to checkif
> > > > > c8xx changes on c2xx access... will have to do that another time.
>
> > > > > I keyed in a modified Apple /// grub bootstrapper, just to see ifit
> > > > > would recognize incoming serial characters - it did not, based onmy
> > > > > assumptions:
> > > > > 0) Port is set to 9600,n,8,1 by default and embedded COM program
> > > > > 1) Standard SSC ACIA hardware addresses in slot 2
> > > > > 2) The serial port is the male DE-9 connector
> > > > > 3) You need a null modem between the TLC and the Real World
>
> > > > I recommend having it blast out the same series of characters over and
> > > > over -- then on the real world side keep adjusting the serial port
> > > > parameters until you get the correct data over the wire. *You could
> > > > probably write a small assembler loop like the following:
>
> > > > loop1 ldy #'A'
> > > > loop2 lda ACIA_STATUS
> > > > * * * * *bit #CLEAR TO SEND MASK *(forgot that one off the top of my
> > > > head)
> > > > * * * * *beq loop2
> > > > (note: you could replace the polling above with some other function
> > > > that takes 55 cycles to finish, in the case of 115200 baud. *For
> > > > slower speeds, double/triple that, etc)
> > > > * * * * *sty ACIA_DATA
> > > > * * * * *cpy #'Z'
> > > > * * * * *beq loop1
> > > > * * * * *bne loop2
>
> > > > Something like that anyway
>
> > > Yep, perfect - I can muck about with that to see if it's trying to
> > > send anything. *And I'll check with a voltmeter first to see if
> > > anything ends up on the wire in the first place... ;-)
>
> > I'm not convinced the serial port is viable on my machine. *I get the
> > normal status out of the status register when nothing's attached, but
> > when I hook up the other side via a null modem, the status doesn't
> > change (at all) the way other SSC machines do. *So, lots of tweaks to
> > the configuration registers later, I still don't have anything coming
> > out the wire.
>
> > I pulled the top off the machine - lots of custom logic (and trace
> > wires...), but no big juicy 6551 to replace. :-(
>
> Anything that resembles traces to a tape or joystick port?

Tiger is very unlike Apple - their boards are not labeled with human
friendly markings. But there is a joystick port - I was thinking this
was IIc-based, but maybe it's IIe - and I can use NadaNet!

Eric Rucker

On Sep 2, 9:56*pm, schmidtd <schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> I'm not convinced the serial port is viable on my machine. *I get the
> normal status out of the status register when nothing's attached, but
> when I hook up the other side via a null modem, the status doesn't
> change (at all) the way other SSC machines do. *So, lots of tweaks to
> the configuration registers later, I still don't have anything coming
> out the wire.

Could it possibly be TTL levels, rather than RS-232 levels?

schmidtd

On Sep 3, 11:47*am, Eric Rucker <bhtoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 9:56*pm, schmidtd <schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm not convinced the serial port is viable on my machine. *I get the
> > normal status out of the status register when nothing's attached, but
> > when I hook up the other side via a null modem, the status doesn't
> > change (at all) the way other SSC machines do. *So, lots of tweaks to
> > the configuration registers later, I still don't have anything coming
> > out the wire.
>
> Could it possibly be TTL levels, rather than RS-232 levels?

On a Commodore 64, sure - but this machine was made in 1996. The
advertisements suggested that there was an upcoming communications
package that would connect to the 'net, which would (at the time) have
required a typical external modem at the other end of the serial port.

Eric Rucker

On Sep 3, 12:32*pm, schmidtd <schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Sep 3, 11:47*am, Eric Rucker <bhtoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 2, 9:56*pm, schmidtd <schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > I'm not convinced the serial port is viable on my machine. *I get the
> > > normal status out of the status register when nothing's attached, but
> > > when I hook up the other side via a null modem, the status doesn't
> > > change (at all) the way other SSC machines do. *So, lots of tweaks to
> > > the configuration registers later, I still don't have anything coming
> > > out the wire.
>
> > Could it possibly be TTL levels, rather than RS-232 levels?
>
> On a Commodore 64, sure - but this machine was made in 1996. *The
> advertisements suggested that there was an upcoming communications
> package that would connect to the 'net, which would (at the time) have
> required a typical external modem at the other end of the serial port.

Unless the external modem was going to be a proprietary model?

schmidtd

On Sep 3, 1:08*pm, Eric Rucker <bhtoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 3, 12:32*pm, schmidtd <schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 3, 11:47*am, Eric Rucker <bhtoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 2, 9:56*pm, schmidtd <schmi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I'm not convinced the serial port is viable on my machine. *I getthe
> > > > normal status out of the status register when nothing's attached, but
> > > > when I hook up the other side via a null modem, the status doesn't
> > > > change (at all) the way other SSC machines do. *So, lots of tweaks to
> > > > the configuration registers later, I still don't have anything coming
> > > > out the wire.
>
> > > Could it possibly be TTL levels, rather than RS-232 levels?
>
> > On a Commodore 64, sure - but this machine was made in 1996. *The
> > advertisements suggested that there was an upcoming communications
> > package that would connect to the 'net, which would (at the time) have
> > required a typical external modem at the other end of the serial port.
>
> Unless the external modem was going to be a proprietary model?

Yep, good point. The mouse port is listed as being PS/2 compatible,
but I can't get my PS/2 mice to work on the initial GUI screen. So
either that mouse (port) is proprietary, or it doesn't work either. :-)