Steve Nickolas

I've come across this on a couple disks and isolated 3 different versions
of it. It's a weird, heavily hacked DOS 3.3, apparently from Russia or
Bulgaria. Anyone heard of this, know anything about it?

The interesting thing about it is it has built-in support for crunched
graphics. I was just experimenting with the capability.

-uso.

Vladimir Ivanov

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012, Steve Nickolas wrote:

> I've come across this on a couple disks and isolated 3 different versions of
> it. It's a weird, heavily hacked DOS 3.3, apparently from Russia or
> Bulgaria.

Bulgaria. Doesn't it have "Orlin Shopov" when doing "DIR", or somewhere
embedded?

I believe this guy runs:
http://eagle.bg/eng/

> Anyone heard of this, know anything about it?

My most used fast DOS at the time.

Is a little bigger than normal fast DOSes - both in memory and on disk.
Prints track/sector/op in inverse.

"INIT" only rewrites DOS, does not format.

> The interesting thing about it is it has built-in support for crunched
> graphics. I was just experimenting with the capability.

"GLOAD" / "GSAVE", produce 'G' files.

"DIR" just like "CATALOG".

"-" starts any file.

There was also "SOUND", IIRC. Perhaps something like "SOUND Apitch,Lduration".



Just curious, Steve, where did you find it?

Steve Nickolas

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012, Vladimir Ivanov wrote:

>
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012, Steve Nickolas wrote:
>
>> I've come across this on a couple disks and isolated 3 different versions
>> of it. It's a weird, heavily hacked DOS 3.3, apparently from Russia or
>> Bulgaria.
>
> Bulgaria. Doesn't it have "Orlin Shopov" when doing "DIR", or somewhere
> embedded?

It's the same as CATALOG:

EAGLE SOFTWARE GRAPHEXT 2.8
___________________________

SLOT 6 DRIVE 1 VOLUME 254


followed by a normal catalog and a free sector count. The type which DOS
3.3 reports as "Alternate B", and my own hacks report as "O" (for Other),
is called G here.

> I believe this guy runs:
> http://eagle.bg/eng/
>
>> Anyone heard of this, know anything about it?
>
> My most used fast DOS at the time.
>
> Is a little bigger than normal fast DOSes - both in memory and on disk.
> Prints track/sector/op in inverse.

I noticed. And different versions show it in different places or in
different formats.

2.9 and 3.0 also beep around when I hit the keys. (Which is why I tend to
prefer the 2.8 I dug off the disk image that comes with Appler.)

They also seem to have ONERR TRY AGAIN built into them. (Nice feature,
though I'm not exactly a fan.)

> "INIT" only rewrites DOS, does not format.

I... *cough* noticed that.

>
>> The interesting thing about it is it has built-in support for crunched
>> graphics. I was just experimenting with the capability.
>
> "GLOAD" / "GSAVE", produce 'G' files.
>
> "DIR" just like "CATALOG".
>
> "-" starts any file.

Ah, like ProDOS?

>
> There was also "SOUND", IIRC. Perhaps something like "SOUND
> Apitch,Lduration".

Ah. I noticed the command, didn't know how it worked.

> Just curious, Steve, where did you find it?

There's a 2.9 on Asimov. 2.8's in the disk image that comes with the
"Appler" emulator (one of the devs was in Bulgaria, which would prolly
explain the use of a Bulgarian DOS). 3.0 is in a file called
"Basic_Pravetz.dsk". I'm pretty sure I've seen a 2.7 somewhere but can't
find it (my Apple ][ folder is a MESS).

Here would prolly be the files in question:

ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple...isc/appler.zip
ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple...0DOS%202.9.dsk
ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple...ic_Pravetz.dsk

(And I know a little about the Pravetz line, though not much at all.)

-uso.

Vladimir Ivanov

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012, Steve Nickolas wrote:

> It's the same as CATALOG:
>
> EAGLE SOFTWARE GRAPHEXT 2.8
> ___________________________
>
> SLOT 6 DRIVE 1 VOLUME 254

First random image I found in my collection with Eagle GraphExt is version 2.9.

Fun trivia - the underscores form a continous line on the Apple chargen.

> followed by a normal catalog and a free sector count. The type which DOS 3.3
> reports as "Alternate B", and my own hacks report as "O" (for Other), is
> called G here.

Yes, one of the "special" file types was used.

> I noticed. And different versions show it in different places or in
> different formats.

Example 2.9 status - "00 E R" in inverse. How different are the others?

> 2.9 and 3.0 also beep around when I hit the keys. (Which is why I tend to
> prefer the 2.8 I dug off the disk image that comes with Appler.)

This 2.9 I just booted is silent, i.e. normal.

> They also seem to have ONERR TRY AGAIN built into them. (Nice feature,
> though I'm not exactly a fan.)

Some BASIC additon? Mine doesn't have such.

>> "INIT" only rewrites DOS, does not format.
>
> I... *cough* noticed that.

I find this behavior normal. Another fast DOS I was using, which printed
track/sector/op in normal, also updated tracks 0-2 only without full
format. Given how often these tracks were destroyed, or the need to
"speed" some regular DOS diskette or populate DOS on Locksmith-formatted
one, this feature was very useful to me.

And if I have to guess, the "INIT" formatting code was a good prime
candidate for the additional space needed when enhancing the DOS.

Then there was some fast DOS which printed status like "R 01/6->A700 D1".
It also just replaces DOS without full format.

> Here would prolly be the files in question:
>
> ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple...isc/appler.zip
> ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple...0DOS%202.9.dsk
> ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple...ic_Pravetz.dsk

Wasn't there a DOS/OS category on Asimov? The second one might be better
there.

Which reminds me I have to start Asimov-related discussion soon. There are
few things that need attention IMHO.


Another fun Eagle GrahpExt trivia - I have at least one DOS 3.3 virus, and
it fails to migrate on this DOS. Upon boot the infected Eagle GraphExt
fails to load and dumps to Monitor, so I guess it's considerably different
than others, because the virus works on other fast DOSes.

Steve Nickolas

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012, Vladimir Ivanov wrote:

>
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012, Steve Nickolas wrote:
>
>> It's the same as CATALOG:
>>
>> EAGLE SOFTWARE GRAPHEXT 2.8
>> ___________________________
>>
>> SLOT 6 DRIVE 1 VOLUME 254
>
> First random image I found in my collection with Eagle GraphExt is version
> 2.9.
>
> Fun trivia - the underscores form a continous line on the Apple chargen.

Yeah. I used to use an imitation Apple font in CP437 as the master font
for my emulators.

>
>> followed by a normal catalog and a free sector count. The type which DOS
>> 3.3 reports as "Alternate B", and my own hacks report as "O" (for Other),
>> is called G here.
>
> Yes, one of the "special" file types was used.

The one which almost nothing uses...except LISA assembler, iirc?

>
>> I noticed. And different versions show it in different places or in
>> different formats.
>
> Example 2.9 status - "00 E R" in inverse. How different are the others?

The 2.9 I have says "11-0/R" instead of the expected "11 0 R".

2.8 is as you say. Both have it on the bottom right.

3.0 has it with the dash and slash, in the TOP LEFT. (Which is odd...
every other variant I've seen that shows the status does it in the bottom
right.)

>
>> 2.9 and 3.0 also beep around when I hit the keys. (Which is why I tend to
>> prefer the 2.8 I dug off the disk image that comes with Appler.)
>
> This 2.9 I just booted is silent, i.e. normal.

I wonder if it was a common hack.

>
>> They also seem to have ONERR TRY AGAIN built into them. (Nice feature,
>> though I'm not exactly a fan.)
>
> Some BASIC additon? Mine doesn't have such.

It's a hack on the DOS, so that instead of say

]

FILE NOT FOUND

]_

it would instead do something like this:

]_

FILE NOT FOUND

The Beagle Bros version of this is called "ONERR TRY AGAIN" and I think
it's on Silicon Salad.

>
>>> "INIT" only rewrites DOS, does not format.
>>
>> I... *cough* noticed that.
>
> I find this behavior normal. Another fast DOS I was using, which printed
> track/sector/op in normal, also updated tracks 0-2 only without full format.
> Given how often these tracks were destroyed, or the need to "speed" some
> regular DOS diskette or populate DOS on Locksmith-formatted one, this feature
> was very useful to me.
>
> And if I have to guess, the "INIT" formatting code was a good prime candidate
> for the additional space needed when enhancing the DOS.

Prolly. A lot of hacks zap INIT entirely.

>
> Then there was some fast DOS which printed status like "R 01/6->A700 D1". It
> also just replaces DOS without full format.

I have one that looks like "61FE 04 2 >> 36F4".

>
>> Here would prolly be the files in question:
>>
>> ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple...isc/appler.zip
>> ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple...0DOS%202.9.dsk
>> ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple...ic_Pravetz.dsk
>
> Wasn't there a DOS/OS category on Asimov? The second one might be better
> there.
>
> Which reminds me I have to start Asimov-related discussion soon. There are
> few things that need attention IMHO.
>
>
> Another fun Eagle GrahpExt trivia - I have at least one DOS 3.3 virus, and it
> fails to migrate on this DOS. Upon boot the infected Eagle GraphExt fails to
> load and dumps to Monitor, so I guess it's considerably different than
> others, because the virus works on other fast DOSes.
>

It does look very different under the hood than most DOS hacks. More
different, even, than DiversiDOS.

If you look at the hack I use on my disks, it's close enough that the
vast majority of programs still work. (A notable exception was Terrapin
Logo - a problem I traced to lobbing out the VERIFY command to make room
for the TYPE code from ProntoDOS.)

The most obvious changes - I didn't implement every hack I wanted to -
were the free space display, the TYPE command, different bootup behavior
and (in the current version) 16 extra sectors. It's a mix of code I got
from Apple Assembly Line and stuff I hijacked off ProntoDOS, plus a few
mods I made myself.

-uso.

Vladimir Ivanov

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012, Steve Nickolas wrote:

>>> followed by a normal catalog and a free sector count. The type which DOS
>>> 3.3 reports as "Alternate B", and my own hacks report as "O" (for Other),
>>> is called G here.
>>
>> Yes, one of the "special" file types was used.
>
> The one which almost nothing uses...except LISA assembler, iirc?

Dunno. With the different representations in different DOSes, it's hard to
recollect such tiny details. :-)

> The 2.9 I have says "11-0/R" instead of the expected "11 0 R".
>
> 2.8 is as you say. Both have it on the bottom right.
>
> 3.0 has it with the dash and slash, in the TOP LEFT. (Which is odd... every
> other variant I've seen that shows the status does it in the bottom right.)

This is funny. I won't rule out some additional hack by another person for
own customization. A binary compare will tell whether it's only a few
bytes patchwork.

>>> 2.9 and 3.0 also beep around when I hit the keys. (Which is why I tend to
>>> prefer the 2.8 I dug off the disk image that comes with Appler.)
>>
>> This 2.9 I just booted is silent, i.e. normal.
>
> I wonder if it was a common hack.

Not in my case.

>>> They also seem to have ONERR TRY AGAIN built into them. (Nice feature,
>>> though I'm not exactly a fan.)
>>
>> Some BASIC additon? Mine doesn't have such.
>
> It's a hack on the DOS, so that instead of say
>
> ]
>
> FILE NOT FOUND
>
> ]_
>
> it would instead do something like this:
>
> ]_
>
> FILE NOT FOUND
>
> The Beagle Bros version of this is called "ONERR TRY AGAIN" and I think it's
> on Silicon Salad.

Ah, I see. It's there.

It was good practice to incorporate useful bits from here and there. For
instance, the ROM of Pravetz-8C had nice additions like
Ctrl+Reset+ClosedApple dropping you into Monitor (great for hacking), or
supporting hex constants in the "$xxxx" form in BASIC. Also the more
common mini-asm, Step/Trace and search in Monitor. Try it, image is
available on the net.

> It does look very different under the hood than most DOS hacks. More
> different, even, than DiversiDOS.

It was the most differing but still compatible DOS as I remember it.

> If you look at the hack I use on my disks, it's close enough that the vast
> majority of programs still work. (A notable exception was Terrapin Logo - a
> problem I traced to lobbing out the VERIFY command to make room for the TYPE
> code from ProntoDOS.)

Forgot that Eagle GraphExt also has "TYPE" command. But you probably have
found that out already.

Steve Nickolas

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012, Vladimir Ivanov wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012, Steve Nickolas wrote:
>
>>>> followed by a normal catalog and a free sector count. The type which DOS
>>>> 3.3 reports as "Alternate B", and my own hacks report as "O" (for Other),
>>>> is called G here.
>>>
>>> Yes, one of the "special" file types was used.
>>
>> The one which almost nothing uses...except LISA assembler, iirc?
>
> Dunno. With the different representations in different DOSes, it's hard to
> recollect such tiny details. :-)

:-)

Some stuff didn't seem to acknowledge that types other than B-A-I-T
existed. DOS BOSS didn't understand the other types and let you stretch
the DISK VOLUME header over them (otoh, my own version, DOS Manipulator,
does recognize them; that's how I patched STOS).

>> The 2.9 I have says "11-0/R" instead of the expected "11 0 R".
>>
>> 2.8 is as you say. Both have it on the bottom right.
>>
>> 3.0 has it with the dash and slash, in the TOP LEFT. (Which is odd... every
>> other variant I've seen that shows the status does it in the bottom right.)
>
> This is funny. I won't rule out some additional hack by another person for
> own customization. A binary compare will tell whether it's only a few bytes
> patchwork.

Could well be. I've seen DOS 3.3 hacks that only show locked files.

> It was good practice to incorporate useful bits from here and there. For
> instance, the ROM of Pravetz-8C had nice additions like
> Ctrl+Reset+ClosedApple dropping you into Monitor (great for hacking), or
> supporting hex constants in the "$xxxx" form in BASIC. Also the more common
> mini-asm, Step/Trace and search in Monitor. Try it, image is available on the
> net.

EDM does the opt-ctrl-reset thing too. I used it when doing a couple of
my filecracks. Didn't know the 8C had that.

Maybe the 8C ROM was based on EDM?

I still wonder if it's possible to come up with a replacement for FPBASIC
because I never felt right packaging it with my emus. The closest I got
was ripping it from a shareware emu that had custom ROMs (and for which
FPBASIC was separately licensed from M$).

>> It does look very different under the hood than most DOS hacks. More
>> different, even, than DiversiDOS.
>
> It was the most differing but still compatible DOS as I remember it.
>
>> If you look at the hack I use on my disks, it's close enough that the vast
>> majority of programs still work. (A notable exception was Terrapin Logo -
>> a problem I traced to lobbing out the VERIFY command to make room for the
>> TYPE code from ProntoDOS.)
>
> Forgot that Eagle GraphExt also has "TYPE" command. But you probably have
> found that out already.

LOL

-uso.

Vladimir Ivanov

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012, Steve Nickolas wrote:

> Maybe the 8C ROM was based on EDM?

No idea. I had little information back then and most of the things I
discover(ed) happened to be after everything was beyond obsolete.

The hex constants in BASIC were handy, though.

PRINT PEEK($BFFB)

>> Forgot that Eagle GraphExt also has "TYPE" command. But you probably have
>> found that out already.
>
> LOL

Ok, after taking a peek at the dump:

TYPE <file> - lists text file
MAKE <file> - creates text file until CTRL+C
BOOT - reboots
HALT - just what it says
MODE <num> - switches to text/graphic mode
0: LORES page 1, full
1: LORES page 2, full
2: LORES page 1, mixed
3: LORES page 2, mixed
4: HIRES page 1, full
5: HIRES page 2, full
6: HIRES page 1, mixed
7: HIRES page 2, mixed
8: TEXT

Vladimir Ivanov

Steve, I forgot to add:

Compared the 2.9 and 3.0 versions from the images on Asimov that you
posted.

2.9 and 3.0 differ very slightly (just 201 bytes), so I don't exclude the
possibility of being someone else's patchwork. I leave it to you to verify
that theory. ;-)