kynrek

Someone gave me and apple ii+ but the keyboard did not work at all,
only the reset key worked. I replaced the keyboard encoder ic and a
few other components on the encoder board and now some of the keys do
make characters show on the screen

However the keys are not showing the right characters. for instance
the letters s and d both output the letter w, most of the number keys
output a ?. I think the individiual key switches might be bad but I'm
not sure. I can remove the key caps but I don't know how to get to the
switches underneath, I dont see any screws on the metal plate that
seperates the top of the keybaord with the key caps and the underside
with the switches underneath.

D Finnigan

kynrek wrote:
>
> However the keys are not showing the right characters. for instance
> the letters s and d both output the letter w, most of the number keys
> output a ?.

I had a problem like this a few months ago, and as I recall, it was because
some of the key switches were stuck in the closed position. Now the cause
was probably different: I had washed the keyboard, and there was still water
making a circuit in some of the keys.

--
]DF$
Mac GUI Vault - A source for retro Apple II and
Macintosh computing.
http://macgui.com/vault/

Michael Black

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011, D Finnigan wrote:

> kynrek wrote:
>>
>> However the keys are not showing the right characters. for instance
>> the letters s and d both output the letter w, most of the number keys
>> output a ?.
>
> I had a problem like this a few months ago, and as I recall, it was because
> some of the key switches were stuck in the closed position. Now the cause
> was probably different: I had washed the keyboard, and there was still water
> making a circuit in some of the keys.
>
But I would figure a washing might just be what's needed. Either because
the keys stick, or something sticky has been spilled on the keyboard and
is shorting out contacts somewhere.

I had an "IBM" keyboard apart recently and it was pretty disgusting.

It seems daring to actually wash a circuit board, but so long as one dries
it very carefull (be patient, sit it out in the hot sun, or even put it in
the oven at a very minimal temperature for a few hours).

I once found a decent stereo receiver in a snow bank, and it had picked up
a lot of salt. I was bold, washing it though avoiding getting the
transformer wet, and I let it sit for some time before I tried it. It
worked fine, probably would have been fine without the washing, but I was
more worried about long term corrosion from the salt. It kept working
until I found something more interesting.

Michael

D Finnigan

Michael Black wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2011, D Finnigan wrote:
>
>> kynrek wrote:
>>>
>>> However the keys are not showing the right characters. for instance
>>> the letters s and d both output the letter w, most of the number keys
>>> output a ?.
>>
>> I had a problem like this a few months ago, and as I recall, it was
>> because
>> some of the key switches were stuck in the closed position. Now the cause
>> was probably different: I had washed the keyboard, and there was still
>> water
>> making a circuit in some of the keys.
>>
> But I would figure a washing might just be what's needed. Either because
> the keys stick, or something sticky has been spilled on the keyboard and
> is shorting out contacts somewhere.
>
> I had an "IBM" keyboard apart recently and it was pretty disgusting.
>
> It seems daring to actually wash a circuit board, but so long as one dries

> it very carefull (be patient, sit it out in the hot sun, or even put it in

> the oven at a very minimal temperature for a few hours).
>

Personal notes from observing the effects of washing my Apple II Plus
keyboard:

Make sure to use the "purest" water possible; my green board has various
water and oil spots, likely from minerals and such in the water. Soap is
unnecessary; water itself is a solvent.

--
]DF$
Mac GUI Vault - A source for retro Apple II and
Macintosh computing.
http://macgui.com/vault/

rittwage

On Oct 17, 1:51*pm, kynrek <kyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Someone gave me and apple ii+ but the keyboard did not work at all,
> only the reset key worked. I replaced the keyboard encoder ic and a
> few other components on the encoder board and now some of the keys do
> make characters show on the screen
>
> However the keys are not showing the right characters. for instance
> the letters s and d both output the letter w, most of the number keys
> output a ?. I think the individiual key switches might be bad but I'm
> not sure. I can remove the key caps but I don't know how to get to the
> switches underneath, I dont see any screws on the metal plate that
> seperates the top of the keybaord with the *key caps and the underside
> with the switches underneath.

Where did you find an encoder chip to replace yours?!

-Pete

kynrek

On Oct 17, 5:41*pm, rittwage <rittw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 17, 1:51*pm, kynrek <kyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Someone gave me and apple ii+ but the keyboard did not work at all,
> > only the reset key worked. I replaced the keyboard encoder ic and a
> > few other components on the encoder board and now some of the keys do
> > make characters show on the screen
>
> > However the keys are not showing the right characters. for instance
> > the letters s and d both output the letter w, most of the number keys
> > output a ?. I think the individiual key switches might be bad but I'm
> > not sure. I can remove the key caps but I don't know how to get to the
> > switches underneath, I dont see any screws on the metal plate that
> > seperates the top of the keybaord with the *key caps and the underside
> > with the switches underneath.
>
> Where did you find an encoder chip to replace yours?!
>
> -Pete

I got my encoder from this here
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AY5-3600-GI-...-/390121009363
on eBay he is asking 19.99 but I offered 12.95 and he accepted. This
chip brought the keyboard back from the dead. Replacing the other
components was not necessary to get it to start responding but I did
it just to preserve the encoder circuit.

Michael J. Mahon

kynrek <kynrek@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 17, 5:41 pm, rittwage <rittw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 17, 1:51 pm, kynrek <kyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Someone gave me and apple ii+ but the keyboard did not work at all,
>>> only the reset key worked. I replaced the keyboard encoder ic and a
>>> few other components on the encoder board and now some of the keys do
>>> make characters show on the screen
>>
>>> However the keys are not showing the right characters. for instance
>>> the letters s and d both output the letter w, most of the number keys
>>> output a ?. I think the individiual key switches might be bad but I'm
>>> not sure. I can remove the key caps but I don't know how to get to the
>>> switches underneath, I dont see any screws on the metal plate that
>>> seperates the top of the keybaord with the key caps and the underside
>>> with the switches underneath.
>>
>> Where did you find an encoder chip to replace yours?!
>>
>> -Pete
>
> I got my encoder from this here
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AY5-3600-GI-...-/390121009363
> on eBay he is asking 19.99 but I offered 12.95 and he accepted. This
> chip brought the keyboard back from the dead. Replacing the other
> components was not necessary to get it to start responding but I did
> it just to preserve the encoder circuit.

Heck of a time to point this out, but your old encoder may actually be OK.

The encoder has very high-impedance inputs, so board contamination can
prevent it from working. I wouldn't throw it out until it's been cleaned
and found not to work on a clean keyboard.

That, BTW, is why even relatively clean moisture can render a keyboard
inoperative.

-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

kynrek

On Oct 17, 7:28*pm, kynrek <kyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 17, 5:41*pm, rittwage <rittw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 17, 1:51*pm, kynrek <kyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Someone gave me and apple ii+ but the keyboard did not work at all,
> > > only the reset key worked. I replaced the keyboard encoder ic and a
> > > few other components on the encoder board and now some of the keys do
> > > make characters show on the screen
>
> > > However the keys are not showing the right characters. for instance
> > > the letters s and d both output the letter w, most of the number keys
> > > output a ?. I think the individiual key switches might be bad but I'm
> > > not sure. I can remove the key caps but I don't know how to get to the
> > > switches underneath, I dont see any screws on the metal plate that
> > > seperates the top of the keybaord with the *key caps and the underside
> > > with the switches underneath.
>
> > Where did you find an encoder chip to replace yours?!
>
> > -Pete
>
> I got my encoder from this herehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/AY5-3600-GI-Vintage-LSI-IC-40-Pin-1978-AY5360...
> on eBay he is asking 19.99 but I offered 12.95 and he accepted. This
> chip brought the keyboard back from the dead. Replacing the other
> components was not necessary to get it to start responding but I did
> it just to preserve the encoder circuit.

Here's the before picture
<a href="http://s548.photobucket.com/albums/ii338/joshandstacy/?
action=view&current=2fd15f1c.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://
i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii338/joshandstacy/2fd15f1c.jpg"
border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

Ok I cleaned it with some purified water, dried it's best I could and
I will leave it set for a few days

Here are some other pics of me replacing the logic gate ic's (did not
seem to make a difference in performance)

<a href="http://s548.photobucket.com/albums/ii338/joshandstacy/?
action=view&current=776e7df2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://
i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii338/joshandstacy/776e7df2.jpg"
border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

<a href="http://s548.photobucket.com/albums/ii338/joshandstacy/?
action=view&current=6006b812.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://
i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii338/joshandstacy/6006b812.jpg"
border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

<a href="http://s548.photobucket.com/albums/ii338/joshandstacy/?
action=view&current=824b7148.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://
i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii338/joshandstacy/824b7148.jpg"
border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

By the way does anyone know where I can get another din16 male to make
cable (jumper) for the keyboard? I repaired mine but it's ugly.

Patrick Schaefer

Am 18.10.2011 01:28 schrieb kynrek:

> I got my encoder from this here
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AY5-3600-GI-...-/390121009363

Make sure to get the right one. The //e uses the same chip but with
different programming. This will end you up with a new keyboard layout ;-)


Patrick

kynrek

On Oct 18, 1:35*pm, Patrick Schaefer <pa.schae...@web.de> wrote:
> Am 18.10.2011 01:28 schrieb kynrek:
>
> > I got my encoder from this here
> >http://www.ebay.com/itm/AY5-3600-GI-...in-1978-AY5360...
>
> Make sure to get the right one. The //e uses the same chip but with
> different programming. This will end you up with a new keyboard layout ;-)
>
> Patrick

Are you saying that the one in the link is for the iie?